Why has everybody forgotten??

[mrsbouvier]

So British politics is in a mess, a lot of comments I'm hearing are about filthy Tory austerity. However, I still remember the note in the treasury from the outgoing labour government saying 'there's no money left'.
Someone had to sort out the debt. Tories promised austerity, Labour wanted to 'spend our way out of debt'. In the next GE, I have no idea how to vote, but can someone shed some light for me on how this is 'all' the conservatives fault?

[Jux]

And how long ago was that? I can remember waaaaay back to Wilson....

[AlunWynsKnee]

Remember the note from Reggie Maudlin?

[mrsbouvier]

Someone's since explained the idea of spending our way out of debt. I'm learning! If there's a GE, I wouldn't know who to vote for (still don't) but I'm trying to educate myself. Thanks for responding

[joystir59]

This is what the Tories did about national debt

[Numbersaremything]

The general idea of spending your way out of debt is as follows:

The government puts £1m into building a new science block in a school. The government doesn't have it's own builders, so the work goes out to a construction company which has to take on staff to build the science block. The materials are bought from other businesses and the employees have well paid jobs. The companies involved in building the science block all make a profit, so the government gets VAT, NIC and corporation tax. Meanwhile, the employees are earning more money, so they buy more stuff, which in turn generates more profits and tax. The initial investment of £1m gets circulated through the economy many times, with tax coming back to the government each time.

Well, that's the theory anyway, but as soon as the money leaves the country or goes off shore, the government doesn't see an increase in tax revenue, so the debt gets bigger.

[fedup21]

@joystir59

Wow!

Do the Conservatives deny those figures?!

[joystir59]

Uncomfortable facts get glossed over by the right wing media. Labour get blamed for everything even when they aren't in power.

[BreconBeBuggered]

One thing is for sure: there is even less money left now. Like, fucking trillions owed. Perhaps any outgoing administration would leave a glittery IOU on the sideboard.

[NameChangeNugget]

It’s very convenient OP.

I used to vote Labour but, cannot forget the note to the treasury, the Iraq war, selling gold... the list is endless.

[fluffyhamster]

joystir59 - looking at total national debt figures is pretty meaningless.
Most economists look at UK debt as % of GDP, which is a much more useful ratio.

Labour were in power 1997 to 2010 and in the final years of the Labour government national debt was spiralling out of control
In comparison to your chart, have a look at this one:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_debt#/media/File:UK_Debt_to_GDP_ratio.png

The rate of change 2008 - 10 is massive - that's Labour's legacy.
Sure, it has continued to grow as a % since then, but at a much lower rate. Basically the Conservatives HAD to put the brakes on with their much hated austerity measures.

As of this year, UK debt as a % of GDP has begun to fall again.

Worth looking at independent websites like fullfact.org/economy/public-debt/ for information like this.

[luckylavender]

I think you'll find that the final years of the Labour administration was the recession so the 2008 - 2010 figures have to reflect it. The
Tories haven't made the situation any better (understatement) whilst making the vulnerable in society poorer, cutting vital services & still blaming Labour. Marvellous.

[SingleDadReally]

I think the problem is that the deficit, caused by rich bankers lending money irresponsibly was repaid by poor people a long way from any Tory constituencies having their lives decimated, and the rich were bailed out by lower middle class taxpayers, so the Tories (including non-mother Theresa) made a political choice to hammer those least able to cope. That’s why all the crying in Downing Street just deserves derision. By the way, don’t fall for the “Labour didn’t regulate the banks” trope. Just before the 2008 crash no less a person than the great John Redwood published a paper saying the banks should be allowed to hand out mortgages with no income checks.
It’s oxymoronic to be a “compassionate conservative”; naked capitalism isn’t very compassionate.

[fluffyhamster]

SingleDadReally I was willing to consider your argument until I got to this unnecessary cheap shot: including non-mother Theresa

It’s oxymoronic to be bleating on about compassion after that.

[RedSheep73]

For goodness sake op, are you a Daily Fail reader or something? there was a global recession going on at the time, it wasn't a case of the Labour government spending all the cash. The tory solution of austerity has destroyed our public services and still hasn't got the debt down. How could any government be any worse?

[Yaralie]

It is only seven years since someone started a thread on Mumsnet entitled "The Lib Dems can be safely ignored and marginalised "

"Now is the time for Cameron to push through a series of common sense policies which Lib Dems abhor. Cut unskilled immigration to zero. Referendum on Britain leaving the ECHR. Cut petrol tax and Lib Dem "green" energy taxes which lead to high fuel bills. All windfarms subject to local referendum. All taxpayers to receive shares in the natioanalised banks. All paid for by cutting foreign aid and slashing the per household benefits cap to £15k a year."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/1466623-The-Lib-Dems-can-be-safely-ignored-and-marginalised

If a week is a long time in politics seven years is certainly a long time. The LibDems payed a heavy price for puting country before party and making compromises which some may never forgive.

Perhaps we need reminding how much the LibDems did in coalition that was good - taking lowest earners out of income tax, introducing pupil premium, good environmental policies and especially curtailing Tory excesses which ultimately led to that appalling state we're in now.

[SingleDadReally]

There’s only one solution-bring back the Soviet Union! In the Cold War era the fact there was a coherent and well thought out alternative made the capitalists let us have a reasonable standard of life.

[HappydaysArehere]

The American Great Depression was overcome by spending its way out of it.

[Madbengalmum]

OP, it hasn't been forgotten, but it will continue to be denied by those whose heads are in the sand.

[Badbilly]

The American Great Depression was overcome by spending its way out of it.

So was Germany's. They just spent it on different things to America.

[MarieG10]

For goodness sake op, are you a Daily Fail reader or something? there was a global recession going on at the time, it wasn't a case of the Labour government spending all the cash

Err sorry but it was. I had a stint working with the public sector in that period and OMG...I was astounded at some of the heaps of cash being flung around by Gordon Brown. Loads of time limited ring fenced stuff as well so wasn't event about sustained improvement in public services. The only exception really was the NHS but then everything became about meeting the target and missing the point.

I don't think any government in recent years has covered themselves in glory about responsible spending. We have had a ridiculous national debt for years. However, 9 years ago the incoming government inherited such a large gap between income and spending, it was always going to take years...like mortgages do. They don't get paid off in 9 years. Fiscally they should have been even more stern but as you can see from comments on here it wasn't politically doable

Tory austerity...whatever government it makes me laugh. There is a limit to how much more you can spend over your income but unfortunately many in the opposition are just too thick to work it out which is shame when at this current time, there has never been more need for an effective opposition.

Ohh...and why is Jeremy Corbyn a closet Brexiteer. Because the EU will stop him doing a lot of what he wants to do like bailing out failing businesses. Look at Greece, Italy et all. The medicine they made Ireland stomach was far worse than anything we in the U.K. have experienced

[MarieG10]

The American Great Depression was overcome by spending its way out of it.

So was Germany's. They just spent it on different things to America.

Yes they spent there way out of it but it was American money. The Marshall plan

[MarieG10]

Sorry ....their way out of it.....

[Badbilly]

Yes they spent there way out of it but it was American money. The Marshall plan

The Marshall plan did not start until 1948.

[BubblesBuddy]

After WW1, Germany was humiliated and built a war machine as well as motorways and highly sophisticated industry. The war was not fought on their soil. They suffered in the Great Depression but still had industry intact. The USA had a war machine but didn’t invade countries in Europe. Germany did.

[cdtaylornats]

I started voting in the 70s and I've heard at every election "the tories will destroy the NHS". So far the closest anyone has come is Labour with Blair's PPFI schemes.