Labour’s u-turn on supporting the Brexit Referendum result.

[TheaSaurass]

Can anyone believe a policy this party campaigns on for votes at a general election?

Media supporters may call it a ‘shift’, but it’s a honking great u-turn, as weeks ago Corbyn on a Sunday political programme was asked to clarify Labour’s actual position (as attracted Leave and Remain votes at the last election) and he stated that Labour's position was that the UK WAS leaving the Single Market, otherwise we wouldn't be leaving.

And while the man currently setting Labour policy Keir Starmer says the time for “constructive ambiguity” is over this totally undermines the government’s position ahead of EU negotiations resuming next week.

Instead of getting on with Brexit, Labour will only support a transitional period from 2021 to 2023 (leaving open the option to stay in for good), so while May did not get the election result she wanted, who can say she wasn’t right not to trust a parliamentary Labour Party pretending they supported Brexit, to get government legislation through parliament.

Clearly they NOW feel there are more votes for leaving the question if we leave the EU, open.

“Labour makes dramatic shift on Brexit and single market”

”Labour is to announce a dramatic policy shift by backing continued membership of the EU single market beyond March 2019, when Britain leaves the EU, establishing a clear dividing line with the Tories on Brexit for the first time.”

”In a move that positions it decisively as the party of “soft Brexit”, Labour will support full participation in the single market and customs union during a lengthy “transitional period” that it believes could last between two and four years after the day of departure, it is to announce on Sunday.”

”This will mean that under a Labour government the UK would continue to abide by the EU’s free movement rules, accept the jurisdiction of the European court of justice on trade and economic issues, and pay into the EU budget for a period of years after Brexit, in the hope of lessening the shock of leaving to the UK economy. In a further move that will delight many pro-EU Labour backers, Jeremy Corbyn’s party will also leave open the option of the UK remaining a member of the customs union and single market for good, beyond the end of the transitional period.”

”The decision to stay inside the single market and abide by all EU rules during the transitional period, and possibly beyond, was agreed after a week of intense discussion at the top of the party. It was signed off by the leadership and key members of the shadow cabinet on Thursday, according to Starmer’s office.”

[Valentine2]

The whole menifesto of Tories is gone from their website and you are bleating about this??
Paid much?

[EngTech]

I thought JC said he would be PM in 6 months after the election? 😬

We are all doomed I tell you 😁

[JustAnotherPoster00]

Awww there there Thea, look at the bright side you've now got months to rabidly froth and start lots of threads about it, wont that be nice

[DoctorTwo]

Are opposition parties not allowed to oppose nowadays? How Trumpian

[Carolinesbeanies]

Thea, youre on a hiding to nothing here. Heres MN CEO opinion on the issue.

[SchoolShoes]

Look at Labour's lack of clarity on Scottish independence. They do it (presumably) to avoid losing votes but the result in Scotland was that they missed out on capitalising on the drift from the Scot Nationalists. And conservatives managed an unlikey comeback.

[alltouchedout]

I'm very glad they've done this.

[SchoolShoes]

It will suit one segment of their support, (strongly present on Mumsnet!)

Wether it is a good idea for the long term of Labour is doubtful. But maybe only if they succeeded in the aim.

Time will tell.

[TheaSaurass]

” The whole menifesto of Tories is gone from their website and you are bleating about this??
”Paid much?”

The Conservative manifesto was mainly about trying to solve some of funding problems of this country going forward, Labour’s was pure unaffordable tax/spend fiction, added to almost every day, with no thought to the affordability e.g. the £ 100 bil cost of wiping out school fee debt, - so in a loose coalition and years away from the next election, why would that Tory manifesto stay on the website? Labour’s can stay up because like in the past, they just raise taxes and borrow, so why take it down as they can ‘afford it’, even in the country can’t.

Even now and years before an election, in the past few weeks, Corbyn is promising Free Bus passes will continue, Benefits rises will be unfrozen (£3 billion) etc etc and yet they haven’t ‘worked out’ how much privatising the rail, mail, electricity and gas industries will cost to buy and annually run.

Scottish Independence in the manifesto was not on the table according to Scotland’s Labour Leader, days before the general election AND thinking about independence voters and a long called for Westminster coalition with Sturgeon’s SNP, he promised that it was back on the table AFTER the election.

Why am I “bleating” that with the main opposition party run by Corbyn, his word in parliament and to the electorate means shit, and after his visit to Brussels to meet EU chief negotiator Barnier, he is at best looking to weaken the governments hand, at worst looking to stay in the EU by the back door? Go figure.

[YokoReturns]

Ah, TheaSaurass is back from Tory HQ to convince the hard of thinking on here that anyone who isn't a Tory/Leaver is wrong and is going to type in bold to make his/her point, in a very similar manner to Claig.

[GrockleBocs]

Yes Yoko and some things will be underlined too. Perhaps formatting attracts funding.

[QuentinSummers]

I say well done Labour. Wish they'd go the whole hog and change policy to Not Brexit, give the voters a proper alternative to the current car crash.
OP is never going to listen due to very entrenched views, but the news earlier this week that Sterling is the weakest it's ever been, yet our exports haven't benefited as expected should demonstrate to everyone that Brexit is a bad idea.

[Peregrina]

These apologists for the Tories are hilarious - when they won in 2015, their manifesto stayed up on the website, so you could see what they promised and how near they were to trying to implement it. Admittedly, it was a tad embarrassing, because they promised a commitment to the Single Market. Much better to bury it completely and swear blind that you said black is white.

[TheaSaurass]

"Ah, TheaSaurass is back from Tory HQ to convince the hard of thinking on here that anyone who isn't a Tory/Leaver is wrong and is going to type in bold to make his/her point, in a very similar manner to Claig."

Ah so anyone who dares posts the facts about Labour in any form, just M-U-S-T be from Tory HQ?

Clearly the best form of defence is attack, otherwise those that so often regurgitate it, would spend more effort challenging what is said, rather than trying to discredit it - yet isnt Corbyn 'pro democracy' - unless in his own party, or having peoples referendums, never mind supporting the result?

'The party of the people'.

Yeah right.

[TheaSaurass]

Perigrina

"These apologists for the Tories are hilarious - when they won in 2015, their manifesto stayed up on the website, so you could see what they promised"

Is your argument (and the chances of implementing the everyday is Christmas to everyone of the Labour manifesto) so weak you have to worry which manifestos stays on the Conservative website?

Only Labour could say they are going to fund their fat, nationalised State by putting up business taxes e.g. Corporate Tax, and now claim the be the party of business - when even their record over 13-years shows that they lost 2 million manufacturing jobs, 1 mil before the crash even began?

Back to the Conservatives, as they do not have a parliamentary majority to implement their full 2017 manifesto, what is the point of keeping what they can't do on there? Duh

Did the Conservative manifesto stay on the website after 2010 during the more formal coalition with the Lib Dems?

[SoupyNorman]

Is it me but aren't you a Tory shill? Or a wannabe Tory shill?

[TheaSaurass]

"OP is never going to listen due to very entrenched views, but the news earlier this week that Sterling is the weakest it's ever been,..."

Well Sterling the 'weakest its ever been' is absolute rollocks, please qualify, as why SHOULD I listen to that sort of misinformation if that is the best you have?

When do you think it would be under an anti business far left Labour government, massively increasing UK debt, increasing taxes to sustain the unsustainable - and neither in or out of the EU, still contributing £billions to the EU and allowing Free movement of labour compressing UK pay rates - with the UK population rising up after voting Leave the EU?

[Peregrina]

Is your argument (and the chances of implementing the everyday is Christmas to everyone of the Labour manifesto) so weak you have to worry which manifestos stays on the Conservative website?

I am not making any argument - merely stating that normally Manifestos are kept up on websites, so it can be seen what the parties hope to achieve. For a party which wasn't in Government, but then wins, they have the easy get out clause for not implementing manifesto promises; that now they have access to the books, x,y, z is not possible. Not so easy for a party which retains power, except that circumstances change.

As it happens, a quick google brings up both Labour and Conservative manifestos, although the Labour one is more accessible, the Conservative one is a PDF which has to be downloaded.

[Peregrina]

And indeed the 2015 and 2010 manifestos can still be downloaded.
It's even possible to find copies of Attlee's 1945 manifesto on the web.

[TheaSaurass]

"Is it me but aren't you a Tory shill? Or a wannabe Tory shill?"

No, but if I can articulate MY reasons for MY opinions, and all some others so ideologically lame can do, is ‘name call’ – I’d suggest someone is throwing stones in a very large glass house.

If a government/party/policy doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny, or won’t take any factual criticism without 'a party within a party' getting their ‘heavies’ out, personally I’d look at my own beliefs, not attack others for, in this case, talking about Labour's big announcement that THEY want to stand behind (now).

[crazycatguy]

I'm glad they have done this also (and I've never voted Labour). It's about time someone beat the slow transitional Brexit drum. The Tories have beat the return to Empire one and the Lib Dems just have a triangle right now.

Proferring NOT leaving is not a subversion of the will of the people, it's democratic. If we want to leave we'll just vote for it again.

[thecatfromjapan]

I think the days when policy shifts can be dismissed as U-turns, rather than welcomed as responses to a changing political situation, are numbered.

Frankly, I'm glad policy shifts. Anything else smacks to me of blind ideology or fundamentalism.

[thecatfromjapan]

... or a Party held hostage to interests other than being answerable to the electorate such as a frothing libertarian wing or Dacre/Murdoch.

[allegretto]

You seem peeved that Labour aren't supporting the Tory government. Many of us are happy that they have decided not to get behind the government's desire to drive us off the edge of a cliff!

[TheaSaurass]

Perigrina

"And indeed the 2015 and 2010 manifestos can still be downloaded"

Thank you for that information, but while it seems very important to some why the 2017 Conservative manifesto is not there, other than this current loose coalition is far weaker than in 2010 and the DUP disagreed with some of the policies - AND the government has a huge job re a Brexit agreement to then get through parliament (that just got a whole lot tougher due to Labours u-turn) - I have no other explanation to offer.

Sorry.

But frankly due to recent records in government, from 1997 I'd worry far more about what Labour leaves OUT of their manifestos (to be implemented after), not just what they put in.