Labour can stop Brexit

[LovelyBath77]

In the Guardian today

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/28/labour-can-stop-brexit-but-only-with-fresh-vote-says-sadiq-khan

Any thoughts ?

[NinonDeLenclos]

I think the country should have learnt its lesson vis referendums the first time.

It's a cop out. Labour needs to admit, what most people are rapidly realising, that Brexit is unworkable and the country was sold a white elephant.

[TheaSaurass]

Labour have to admit, that either Corbyn's general election manifesto promising to leave the Single Market was ANOTHER 'misunderstanding' to get votes (because he didn't know the details). or get his own very senior politicians in order.

“Keir Starmer: Labour keen to keep EU single market option on table”

It was only last Sunday Mr Corbyn stood by his leave the Single Market manifesto pledge on the BBC's Andrew Marr show - with some ambiguity on the Customs Union in line with his shadow chancellor - thank god they aren't negotiating, as at least the government knows what they are going to leave, its the t-t-t-t-t-timing they are finally agreeing upon.

[NinonDeLenclos]

The government doesn't know whether it's coming or going. And Labour are equally split.

The Labour Brexit manifesto did not promise to leave the single market, if you read it carefully. It pledged:

a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first"

which could be interpreted either way.

Essentially, as a long time Lexiter, and people follower, Corbyn has taken over the government's erstwhile 'cake and eat it position. He insists on leaving the single market, I suspect because he hasn't read the economic small print, as he's too busy out hugging people. Many others in the party are pro-Remain though.

Brexit will ultimately destroy whichever party presides over it. It remains to be seen which of the two drink from the poisoned chalice.

[jeanne16]

Corbyn has always been very anti the EU. How can people think Labour will stop Brexit while he is the leader?

[TheaSaurass]

"which could be interpreted either way."

Possibly because Corbyn has been against the EU project since the 1980's as hates free markets, but liked the social rights etc - so possibly doesn't know whether to have a poo or a haircut on the subject.

As you say over 200 Labour MPs voted Remain, so not having to confront that issue in his own party, and have an electoral horse in both the remain and leave contest, 'works' for him in his political ambitions.

Hardly qualities to get the best deal for the UK, but Barnier will have him around for tea and a Belgium Bun, anytime.

[lessworriedaboutthecat]

www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-banks-deposits-idUSKBN1AD1RS

[NinonDeLenclos]

Meanwhile Barnier is quietly eating Davis for breakfast.

There's no such thing as a 'best deal' wrt Brexit - they're all shit.

Either we nuke the economy going commando on hard Brexit - which even Cummings is now realising is suicide - or we sign up to EU rules that we have no control over in an EEA/EFTA type deal. It's lose/lose.

[OhtoblazeswithElvira]

IMO Labour are just as split over the EU as the Tories are. It's just that it doesn't show because they're not in power. Labour were lucky they didn't win the last election. Corbyn is very happy in the opposition.

Am I the only one that's gobsmacked at how crap our politicians are?

[NinonDeLenclos]

Nope.

[TheaSaurass]

For ‘the people’ who are promised a direct say in their future by Referendum should understand how the EU and UK Europhiles work; you can have as many Referendum votes as we like, until you come to the right answer.

The government’s position for an EU that sells more to us than we do to them, is that a clearly mutually beneficial Tariff Free trade agreement will be as difficult as EU Negotiator Barnier, wants to make it EU businesses – who no doubt will soon have their say with their own governments and the bureaucrats in Brussels.

The utter complicity of the EU Negotiator, member state the Republic of Ireland, and worse still key UK politicians in Scotland, Wales, Westminster and now an elected mayor – is near treasonable, as they seek to undermine the government position, carrying out the result of a peoples Referendum.

“Scots and Irish unite to combat hard Brexit”

“Nicola Sturgeon is working with the leader of the Irish government to block Theresa May’s proposals to leave the EU single market and customs union.”

“The alliance, which also includes Carwyn Jones, the Welsh first minister, was revealed yesterday by Leo Varadkar, the Irish prime minister, as he gave a scathing critique of the UK government’s Brexit plans.”

“Mr Varadkar has promised Edinburgh and Cardiff that he will push at European Council level “to try to keep the door open” for Britain to stay in the customs union and the single market, or to draft a new free trade agreement that would be similar to the existing situation.”

The timing of Barnier’s wobbler complaining he is not getting what he wants from Round 1, the Republic of Ireland’s borders spanner, and now pathetic attempt for Varadkar to play the ‘onest broker negotiating what is already in the main, clear we will get anyway, shows just how slippery the Europhiles are, and trying to destabilise the UK government to get what the POLITICIANS want.

“Talk of sea border with Britain riles vulnerable May's Northern Irish allies”

“EU trade commissioner says (EU) bloc will do post-Brexit [[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/27/eu-trade-commissioner-says-bloc-will-do-post-brexit-free-trade/ free00 trade deal with UK 'for sure'

[TheaSaurass]

“EU trade commissioner says (EU) bloc will do post-Brexit free trade deal with UK 'for sure'

[TheaSaurass]

David Miliband when lost the Labour leadership contest to his brother Ed, threw a wobbler and left the country for a nice highly paid job in America, but feels the need with similar past Labour ‘ex-pat’ faces like Blair, to offer strong pro EU opinions to the UK electorate. Like ‘you screwed up’.

David Miliband in contrast to the last Labour 2017 manifesto promising a Brexit that took us out of the EU Single Market, has now said that the UK should have a second referendum on the EU – that didn’t work so well for the Lib Dems, or any other Remain political parties.

Coming up to annual UK party conferences with all the current ‘confusion’ of what parties are NOW saying months AFTER they produced an election manifesto, it will be interesting to see which parties are now saying what – as the EU ‘phase one’ terms offered, are not only seen as too one sided, but so against future UK interests - the UK would remain in the EU ’by the (expensive) back door’ without a vote (that will be vetoed anyway), or freedom to strike our own trade deals across all continents.

“Most Remain voters now back taking control of borders, leaving ECJ and paying no Brexit divorce bill”

If even the Remain voters are thinking that the EU Negotiators are basically only offering the UK a ‘scorched earth’ Brexit, let’s see at conference which parties are not only ‘out of touch’, but also going back on what they previously said, for General Election votes.

[OCSockOrphanage]

I am not sure how enthusiastic the UK is for Brexit or for Remain these days. I know what individuals think, and I read reasonably widely about politics, so I see that Poland and most of the former Comecon countries are not sold on the EU agenda beyond the subsidies and freedom to move to earn more. Once the obviously false promises are eliminated from the story (£350m per week for the NHS... seriously?), then it becomes a discussion. We don't want industrial egg products with free insecticide in the food chain, any more than we want anti-biotic fed beef from the USA. I do hear that the UK's food chain is far from perfect, but from what I see and read, the animal welfare safeguards are better here, and far better observed than in most of Europe. ANd our climate is ideal for rearing top quality livestock. (Disclaimer: I live in a rural area which specialises in livestock and dairy production.)

[cdtaylornats]

If the various interests don't stop fucking about then they will get a non-agreement exit which will be really hard brexit.

[TheaSaurass]

The opposition parties continually say that the government has no Brexit plan, even though the May has said early on, that the UK will leave both the Single Market and Custom Union – which is a lot more than Labour, who flip-flop on being in one or both.

As part of a new set of government initiatives, David Davis to get more pro-active with an EU today (not moving on their opening demands, yet complaining they don’t know what we want) called for a temporary customs deal with the EU after Brexit, as a basis for a negotiation to an EU that in cash terms, sells more to us than we do to them – so mutually beneficial one would think.

With the view of being able to negotiate trade deals after the 2-years from Article 50, the Brexit Secretary said securing an interim customs arrangement, lasting for two to three years, and after that there should be 'streamlined' borders with as little 'friction' on trade as possible.

Ms Sturgeon recently posted on Twitter: 'Seems UK gov is back to its daft 'have cake and eat it' approach to Brexit. They should commit to staying in single market and CU, period.'

And there we typically have it from HM Opposition parties, while the government looks for a ‘softer’ Brexit, all along a ‘Soft Brexit’ to them meant STAYING IN the EU, in one form or another.

The EU’s firm opening position that the UK has the European Court of Justice supreme over our courts re their citizens living here (because they think they can, even if not repeated anywhere else in the world outside the EU), and the UK has to agree a multi tens of billions divorce bill WITHOUT KNOWING what we are going to get for it in trade etc, is an aggressive joke of a hostile counterparty looking to rip our eyes out – but I bet the opposition parties SUPPORT the EU’s positions, as they want to oppose them in parliament with an agenda for a 2nd referendum.

The UK cannot negotiate a deal given those preconditions, so I can understand the headline “Britain threatens to impose VAT and customs duties on EU imports if there is no Brexit deal” - and lets see what EU companies say to their overly political negotiators, who pretend they want a future relationship with us, but offer us nothing up front for THEIR demands.

[cdtaylornats]

Would that be the Sturgeon who wants to leave the UK while keeping the pound and an open border then?

[TheaSaurass]

The very same Ms Sturgeon, clearly wanting HER Dundee Cake and eat it, with EXTRA currents, sultanas, almonds and even the optional fruit peel; all to be thrown in by Westminster, to her non-negotiated recipe.

No double standards there then, nope, not one.