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The Tories cheered that the public sector pay cap stays... WTAF?

(49 Posts)
Draylon Thu 29-Jun-17 16:48:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OP’s posts: |
ChoccyJules Thu 29-Jun-17 16:52:04

I hope so too. Working in the NHS has made me quite ill and the thought that my pay has been frozen for seven years is the icing on the cake.

DixieNormas Thu 29-Jun-17 16:53:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Clavinova Thu 29-Jun-17 18:03:33

Yes, but the Tories were cheering because they had defeated Labour's attempt to bring down the government. Labour timed their amendment as a stunt and lost; it didn't really matter what the vote was about.

Theimpossiblegirl Thu 29-Jun-17 18:07:05

Our emergency services are wonderful at the best of times. At the worst of times they are absolute heroes. This vote is a kick in the teeth, particularly after the recent terror attacks and Grenfell tragedy.
If I had voted Tory I would be feeling pretty ashamed right now.

FidgetSpinner Thu 29-Jun-17 18:10:06

Any public sector worker who votes Tory needs their head testing.

Ginormoustrawberry Thu 29-Jun-17 18:10:20

Yes, but the Tories were cheering because they had defeated Labour's attempt to bring down the government. Labour timed their amendment as a stunt and lost; it didn't really matter what the vote was about

This, I don't understand why people cannot see the bigger picture!

JC is nothing more than an anti establishment socialist and he won't be be happy until he has broken the government!

The actual subject matter was irrelevant but cleverly chosen by Labour to stir up exactly what it has!

FriendPlease Thu 29-Jun-17 18:34:14

Actually the subject matter of the vote does matter, especially so close after grenfell.

Draylon Thu 29-Jun-17 23:40:22

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OP’s posts: |
SuburbanRhonda Thu 29-Jun-17 23:43:30

So the Tories weren't in on it so cheered them?

They're more stupid then I thought, clearly.

DixieNormas Thu 29-Jun-17 23:56:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cdtaylornats Fri 30-Jun-17 12:42:52

If you want hypocrites the SNP voted to end the cap in Westminster but to keep it in Holyrood.

BubblesBuddy Wed 05-Jul-17 22:31:59

It seems to get completely overlooked but a lot of private sector emoluees took huge pay cuts and cuts in hours to keep their jobs. Public sector workers have had 1% and increments on pay scales if they are eligible. The pay has risen. Pensions are certainly better in the public sector. Everyone has to pay for the public sector and many people paying are worse off than the public sector workers! We need to be very careful about who gets what and who pays for it because we keep tearing ourselves apart. This is, of course, the Labour JC and JM agenda. It is what socialist Marxists do. Don't let us be split any more!

ssd Wed 05-Jul-17 22:37:25

I can't see the surprise in this at all

ReinettePompadour Wed 05-Jul-17 22:42:42

Public sector workers have had 1% and increments on pay scales if they are eligible. The pay has risen

Yes they gave some public sector workers a 1% payrise then immediately increased pension contributions from 11% up to 14% so thats a massive paycut so pay has not actually risen at all.

mummabubs Wed 05-Jul-17 22:53:55

@ReinettePompadour thank you for mentioning the pension adjustment- this has stung me big time. We actually got a letter clearly stating that our pension contributions would be increasing and simultaneously the amount we receive when we claim our pension would be decreasing. Add that to a pay rise that isn't a pay rise as it's below inflation so still effectively a pay cut and is it any wonder that so many AFC NHS staff feel unvalued and demotivated? I lived in Oxford for 7 months on a band 4 salary before the pension increase and I had to actively leave the pension scheme for a year as my full take home pay only just covered my rent in a damp-infested student squat house. I ended up seeking employment elsewhere as it was feasible to live on my NHS pay back in 2013.

TheCrowFromBelow Wed 05-Jul-17 23:01:24

But mumma according to Theresa you should learn to live within your means.

Just like all these MPs do. You should just expense the stuff you can't afford, or cite yourself a pay increase, dontchaknow?

Oh wait...

Runningissimple Wed 05-Jul-17 23:02:11

Bubbles

Private sector wages fluctuate with the economy but at the moment public sector wages do not because of the pay cap. Wages do not stay in line with inflation so all affected public sector workers have also effectively taken a pay-cut. I'm a teacher and due to chronic underfunding, we manage the same school with less staff and less resources. This means we need to work even harder for less money. No one has said that people in the private sector are getting an easy ride. It's only you who has brought it up. That's divisive.

Socialists raise taxation to pay for better public services, conservatives want lower taxation and less investment in public services. I don't think anyone's being torn apart. It's just rudimentary left wing/ right wing politics. Not sure why you're mentioning Marxism other than to be inflammatory. Why don't you read some Marx? You might be surprised. It's not all about class war...

People on low incomes rely on public services more than anyone else. We're all paying for public services, even people who work in the public sector so I'm not sure that the suggestion that private sector workers pay for public sector workers quite stands up.

I'm so tired of trying to explain to people why we need decent public services that I can't really be bothered to do it again. If you don't care about everyone in the UK being able to access decent housing, education, health, roads, parks, emergency services, waste disposal and welfare pay less tax and vote Tory. Hope you're loaded cos you'll need a lot of money to pay for all that yourself. Theresa May'll be fine, so will Dave and Boris - they can afford to spend hundreds of squids on a pair of shoes. If you want good quality public services, pay more tax and vote Labour. Simples. smile

Riversleep Wed 05-Jul-17 23:14:31

Yes, funny how all the 'Oh if you increase tax on high earners they will all go abroad' works, but somehow 'If you don't pay nurses, doctors and teachers a decent salary they will all go abroad' doesn't.
And yes, I agree. Public sector workers pay for their pensions, and they pay taxes. Private sector salaries have started to rise. Public sector salaries have seen a real terms cut. No point saying "Oh lets all get along' when there is a very real divide in this country and so many people feel resentful about 'magic money trees' appearing for some things (Bankers, lowering corporation tax, handouts to the DUP) but not for others.

Valentine2 Wed 05-Jul-17 23:20:21

How many MPs voted to freeze their own pay in solidarity with the rest of the public sector worker? Why were the MPs an exception when they get expenses paid back, do a very flexible job (hence so many of them keep second or third jobs, Osborne on his fifth plus apparently!) and paid by their parties for all sorts of campaigns?
Can any NHS nurse or doctor or any school teacher dream of a second job after the kind of work they do? Their pay has gone down in real terms. Tories are in government for seven years now. It is time for them to smell the coffee.

TheaSaurass Thu 06-Jul-17 04:28:53

Valentine2

Firstly I’d say that comparing the 650 MPs who had no option other than accept their pay review body rise, with huge numbers of workers employed by the government e.g. 1.5 million I believe in the NHS alone, is not a cost comparison.

Next lets remind ourselves that during the worst recession in 80-years, when real earnings for the majority of us fell from 2008 onwards, tax paying private sector jobs fell dramatically, while the then government nearly hired a similar amount of new 100% tax funded government workers – which was the cost sustainability economics of some banana republic.

Yes there are now 2.5-3 million new jobs, but still in the low inflation environment until now, it isn’t just the public sector that have had a hard time, here or abroad, as apart from Germany and Poland, the rest of the Eurozone’s pay rises in real terms have been around 1% a year.

I would say that the Tories were cheering, as under Labour who talk about higher wages, then when in power, put up taxes negating any benefits of higher wages (and then some)..

Indeed the ‘alternative’ Labour Party did exactly WHAT for the lower paid workers from 2008 to mid 2010, other than their trade mark HIGHER taxes, in this case putting UP National Insurance for workers and companies – which was effectively a ‘tax on jobs’ during a recession.

The Conservative Coalition then came in, reversed the majority of Labour’s NI increases, and Fuel Duty rises, PLUS began the process of raising the Income Tax start rate to pay thresholds from around £6,300 then, to £11,500 now (and looking to rise further) – hence Tory MPs don’t want lectures from Labour MPs, especially Labour leaders who campaign on making the same 2000s mistake, of taxing the private sector (to 1970’s penal tax rate destruction), to pay for their NEW version of an overly fat State, whatever that is.

Still, the OP is correct in that no Tory voter wants to penalise the public sector front line workers, far from it, but for those in the private sector funding it that haven’t had above inflation pay rises AND had their pensions decimated by Labour, surely they have to be considered too.

cdtaylornats Fri 07-Jul-17 08:24:23

Valentine2 MPs are the only group of workers with no employment protection. They can lose their promotions on a whim of their boss and every 5 or possibly less years have to reapply.

cdtaylornats Fri 07-Jul-17 08:28:47

RunningisSimple - all those public services you want need to be paid for. The state makes no profit. £1 million in public spending needs roughly £2.5 million of earnings made in the private sector.

Runningissimple Fri 07-Jul-17 10:24:12

cdtaylornats I appreciate that they need to be paid for. What do you mean "the public services I want" ? Don't you want public services? What does society look like without public services? What's all the profit for? So a few people can have a nice life while the rest of us grovel in the mud?

It's all a construct - we can move the money where we choose. The dichotomy of public and private money is a massive oversimplification. It's all interconnected and it's in all our interests to try to make society work for as many people as possible. At the moment it seems to be working in the interests of fewer and fewer people. I'm not claiming socialism has all the answers but clearly, neither does capitalism. We need to take what we have, as a society, and try to make it work a little better than it does at the moment. No public services is a move backwards not forwards...

cdtaylornats Fri 07-Jul-17 11:00:31

My point is you saying vote Labour for all these things.

That's true if you want them now but not for long - you should vote Tory if you want the next generation to have them. You should only vote Labour if you don't care about future generations.

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