To those of you who support Corbyn as Labour leader.....

(28 Posts)
onlyconnect Tue 27-Sep-16 16:45:42

I know there are other Corbyn threads but I have a specific question I haven't seen a thread on:

Do you think that in fact he is a competent leader? Could he lead this country effectively?

I'm not asking about his views, I can see why they appeal to some.

AllotmentyPlenty Tue 27-Sep-16 16:52:25

Possibly, yes.

I think we cannot tell as almost no-one could lead with outright mutiny from those below them, which is what he has had.

Think of your child's school, for example. If all the teachers were refusing to do what you said - from day one - and telling the parents, local authority and local papers you were useless, how much difference do you think you could make as Head?

That is why MPs are supposed to support their leaders once chosen. If the PLP had done this appropriately from the start, we might be able to make a decent assessment of the man by now. Because of their behaviour, we can't tell if it is a "boy who cried wolf" scenario or whether there is actually a wolf.

One MP resigned from the shadow cabinet before Corbyn had even finished his acceptance speech last year. That cannot possibly have been an assessment on his actual leadership as he hadn't had time to lead anyone anywhere yet!

The whole situation is a total fiasco and if Corbyn has faults, he is certainly not the only one.

onlyconnect Tue 27-Sep-16 17:11:19

I see most of your point allotmentuplenty but would ask three things:
Why would someone with real leadership qualities wait until their mid-sixties to become "head"?
Why would everyone take against someone with strong leadership qualities right from the very off?
Would not someone with leadership qualities be able to turn just a few of those people who are against them around?

I

GiddyOnZackHunt Tue 27-Sep-16 17:18:19

only the rule changes made it easier for people to join to vote and changed the union vote.
That's partly how it happened.

AllotmentyPlenty Tue 27-Sep-16 17:20:05

(1) I don't think he necessarily wanted to be leader. I think there was no proper left-wing candidate last year and so he agreed to do it. That is not in and of itself a bad thing. I am not sure you want someone who is lusting to be leader above all else.

(2) To make the choice immediately I suspect was because they are not as left wing as him / don't like his politics, not because of who he is as a person / boss.

(3) I think he has turned quite a few people round. His latest win does not come without a huge number of people behind you - though maybe they are not in the PLP. Again, I think turning a group in combined mutiny is hard. I suspect there is a lot of group-think and hiding behind the pack going on. Again, if the MPs had behaved better from the start - not instantly rebelling - it would be easier to respect their opinions now.

Have you ever behaved like they have toward your boss? If all your workmates were doing so, how easy would you find it to not join in? My answers are no I never have, but if everyone else was, I suspect - with shame - I might not have the guts to be in the minority. I don't think I'd actively undermine, but my support might be quieter than it should be.

Batteriesallgone Tue 27-Sep-16 17:26:15

It's the same old point being made over and over. He's not a leader, he's not electable, etc etc.

But most of the people who support Corbyn (IMHO) don't want to vote for a pretty face and charisma. They want to vote for something real. For someone who says 'this is my opinion' and doesn't fucking change it like the wind.

I always wanted to be Labour. But Tony Blair came in when I was still at school and I never had the chance to vote for socialism. Now I do. And that's more important to me than anything else. The sad fact remains that Corbyn is the only person I trust to lead a Labour I'd want to vote for. The rest are all - to quote claig, if I may - 'Establishment'.

slightlyglitterbrained Tue 27-Sep-16 17:33:08

After hearing how my MP (not a Blairite) had resigned due to getting to the end of her tether about lack of communication, support, etc - I think Camp Corbyn has a lot to learn about leadership and organisation. They were making noises about seeking mentoring from senior Labour figures before the results came out - I hope they do so.

PortiaCastis Tue 27-Sep-16 17:34:47

I would like to know why all the moaning and divisive MPs didn't put themselves up as candidate for the leadership.? Seems everyone is ready to hurl insults but do not want to take them

redannie118 Tue 27-Sep-16 17:38:21

Batteries-I could not agree more.People are so used to "new labour"they have utterly lost sight of what socialism looks like.Plus Corbyn is a pacifist and that instantly makes him untrustworthy. We are all lead to believe that if you are a pacifist you are unpatriotic -whereas it's clearly much more patriotic to send generations of our young people into decades of utterly pointless wars,then abandon them afterwards as they are no longer fit to power the corporate machine and line the pockets of rich and powerful.hmm.Tony Blair was young and charismatic and is now desperately trying to evade trail as a war criminal. I know who I would rather vote for....

onlyconnect Tue 27-Sep-16 19:28:09

I really see why someone with Corbyn's views appeals to people. I agree with much of what he stands for myself. BUT for me it's just not enough. I can't help but feel that many who like his views are just so pleased/ relieved that the LP is representing them again that nothing else matters. Even if you put aside the argument that the electorate as a whole won't vote for a PM who is that left wing, I just don't think Corbyn cuts the mustard. I think it's been hard for him with the media focused so much on the Corbyn-disaster story and with MPs determined from the off to destroy his leadership but even so.... for me there are just no signs that he can persuade or pull together people who aren't immediately with him, and that's what he needs to be able to do.

Batteriesallgone Tue 27-Sep-16 20:20:26

People are voting for him anyway. Because they want a socialist choice.

If the PLP had any sense a young charismatic lefty would have gone up against Corbyn. Not some mainstream centre guy who's as bland as Owen Smith.

AllotmentyPlenty Tue 27-Sep-16 20:34:49

Yes! A choice of a young charismatic lefty versus Corbyn would have been a totally different matter. Sexist Owen - Pfizer - Smith was no kind of decent alternative at all.

Batteriesallgone Tue 27-Sep-16 21:07:48

And in the whole of the PLP there was no one suitable apparently. How fucking depressing. And then people tear into Corbyn...

Easier than asking themselves fuck, how did we get to the point where our only socialist MPs are old timers and no one knows what the young ones stand for apart from wanting a go at politics but mummy wouldn't be able to claim working class roots if I stand for the Tories. I jest. Kind of. But that's how I feel.

GiddyOnZackHunt Tue 27-Sep-16 22:36:50

Batteries I agree but I think neither Eagle or Smith were ever thought of as serious contenders. I suspect the PLP wanted one of the future genuine prospects to be held in reserve whilst they wheeled out a compliant stooge while Brexit takes shape. And that stooge would go at the right time.

Batteriesallgone Tue 27-Sep-16 22:53:13

No one trusts them to get it right though.

I mean look at the clusterfuck that was Ed Miliband. It's not like the PLP weren't given a chance. But it's time for something different now.

GiddyOnZackHunt Tue 27-Sep-16 23:04:18

This whole debacle has caused a massive amount of distrust. The Corbyn supporters now feel betrayed by the PLP. The PLP are still disgruntled and still stuck with a leader they don't want.

cdtaylornats Thu 29-Sep-16 00:09:59

On the bright side I here the party finances have been boosted, they've been offered a part in "The Living Dead"

Dapplegrey1 Thu 29-Sep-16 12:05:40

Corbyn is a pacifist and that instantly makes him untrustworthy. We are all lead to believe that if you are a pacifist you are unpatriotic -whereas it's clearly much more patriotic to send generations of our young people into decades of utterly pointless wars,

Redannie - I think Corbyn's pacifism is a good thing. However, having a stall at the Labour conference selling merchandise laughing and sneering at disabled soldiers is utterly despicable. Why did Corbyn allow this?

PortiaCastis Thu 29-Sep-16 12:50:09

Guido and the Sun do not always print the truth
www.rt.com/uk/360793-veterans-art-sun-jarvis/#.V-v_gQmPC0o.twitter

Lalsy Thu 06-Oct-16 11:23:38

And RT does? In any case, as the article makes clear, this was the work of a small group of veterans - Momentum must have known, given the politics of STW and so on, that it would be interpreted as mocking disabled soldiers and would upset many.

Why do you say Corbyn is a pacifist? He has expressed support for armed struggles and told Andrew Marr he would not describe himself as a pacifist (although he has given different answers on this) www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/daily-catch-up-jeremy-corbyn-not-sure-if-hes-a-pacifist-but-never-wrong-a6753961.html. Do you not believe him?

Memoires Thu 06-Oct-16 19:35:06

Eagle needed to be got rid of, and the party to then be persuaded to toe the leader's line enough for a little while, and them when it becomes clear that JC isn't a leader, who will step forward modestly ready to help for the sake of Labour and our beloved party? None other than ..... RW.

You wait.

claig Thu 06-Oct-16 20:02:34

Who is RW?

claig Thu 06-Oct-16 20:18:18

'Jeremy Corbyn sacks Chief Whip Rosie Winterton'

He is getting tough. No more Mr Nice Guy.

SoloD Fri 07-Oct-16 21:27:21

If you think Mr Corbyn is a good leader simply look at the answers to his comments in the Mumsnet discussion he took part in (ignore the biscuit thing it's irrelevant). I think that says it all.

claig Fri 07-Oct-16 22:45:22

Yes, it was a poor chat. He seemed to pick some easy questions that he knew the answers to and avoided anything more difficult.

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