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What we have learned from this Labour Party conference

(28 Posts)
SoloD Mon 26-Sep-16 09:15:25

Don't get me wrong. I want to see a Labour party which is a government in waiting, capable and in a position with voters to win. That is the real way to hold the government to account.

But

1. We have John McDonnell calling a female MP a "a stain on humanity" and then an hour later saying that he was right to say this. Same McDonnell who called the IRA heroes.

2. The Labour Friends of Israel stand getting anti Semitic abuse (in the conference)

3. Corbyn being in favour of war crimes trails of British Soldiers, and added to which memorabilia being sold in the conference mocking injured soldiers, which to my mind is frankly sick what ever you thought of the Iraq & Afgan wars).

4. Corbyn opposes more staff at MI5, same Corbyn who called terrorist organisations HAMAS and Hezbollah his friends.

5. McDonnell has pledged to to borrow in the short term for long-term investment and the "prosperity of the future". Given that the UK has an enormous debt which accumulated without bring us economic prosperity to pay down the debt, how does the Labour party work out that borrowing another enormous amount of money is going to work this time? It just does not make sense.


References

1. www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/watch-refuses-to-apologise-to-esther-mcvey-for-calling-her-a-stain-on-humantity_uk_57e79fdde4b0db20a6e955c1
2. www.politicshome.com/news/uk/social-affairs/discrimination/news/79307/excl-labour-friends-israel-stall-subject-anti
5. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37468209

SoloD Mon 26-Sep-16 09:41:56

There are some really excellent labour MPs, but there is something very wrong when they fear going to their own conference.

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/79300/lisa-nandy-genuinely-frightened-personal-abuse

HappydaysArehere Mon 26-Sep-16 10:08:50

Momentum has high jacked the Labour Party and used the nieve to fuel an ever increasing popularity for Corbyn. However, he is being used by Macdonald and McClusky et al. He isn't a leader and they know it. They are doing the leading and using his demands for all things wonderful to lead themselves into a hard left position of power. This is NOT the Labour Party that I have voted for all my adult life. All I can hope is that the Party do split and the real Labour Part emerges into a credible opposition with a real leader.

HappydaysArehere Mon 26-Sep-16 10:22:37

Naive is what I should have written. Only realised when I looked at it again! Bit like the Momentum party when eventually they have a chance to look at what they have really voted for.

EnthusiasmDisturbed Mon 26-Sep-16 11:08:26

That a kinder politics is political spin that Corbyn has no intention of keeping to and that is clearer than ever

As he also announced the vast majority of (elected) MP's do not need to fear de-selection

if it isn't clear to people now that he is totally reforming the Labour Party to a left wing party and is willing to ignore the electorate and those that have worked for years for the Labour Party and its his way or the highway then it should be clear in the next few months

SoloD Mon 26-Sep-16 13:50:25

I am begiging to believe that Corbyn is the British version of Donald Trump, both anti globalisation, both harking back to an past era of manufacturing, both anti interventionist, both fans of Putin, both seem to be attached to thugs and misogynists.

I am not anti Labour, there are some good political thinkers there who are worth listening to and should be challenging government policy to unsure that bad policy is highlighted and stripped out. I don't think they are going to be able to do this effectively at the moment. Sad.

cdtaylornats Mon 26-Sep-16 14:34:16

the vast majority of (elected) MP's do not need to fear de-selection

But most of them will be involved in areas where there are boundary changes and new selections may happen where boundaries have changed.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Mon 26-Sep-16 14:43:11

I think that Corbyn supporters do share a great deal in common with the supporters of Trump, most obviously in their disregard of any fact that undermines the narrative they have chosen to construct around their saviour. Look at the reaction to the train incident - Corbyn transparently lies, is shown clearly to have done so, reacts to this by threatening the person responsible for exposing him, yet his popularity suffers not one jot. these people are credulous fools and even implosion at the ballot box will teach them nothing. As my dear FIL so often notes, you can't educate swine.

Vistaverde Mon 26-Sep-16 17:13:32

That Seamus Milne is pulling the strings www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/79326/clive-lewis-trident-speech-changed-seumas-milne

Why you would deliberately upset one of Corbyn's supporters in the PLP I have no idea.

Garthmarenghi Mon 26-Sep-16 18:37:23

It's like an Alan Bleasdale satire. But just not very funny.

HappydaysArehere Tue 27-Sep-16 09:49:16

It's terrifying. I am really depressed. Of course they are asking for Party unity. It is their only chance to pursue their goal. I beg the Labour Party - not this Marxist crew - to band together as a separate party. For the first time EVER I thank the SNP for being a credible force in Scotland. At least they can keep Corbyn et al out there and hopefully save the UK.
Meanwhile, after a life time of supporting Labour I will have to vote Tory. I cannot believe it! Angela Eagle would have had more of a chance than the outsider Owen Smith. He didn't help.sad

littlebillie Tue 26-Sep-17 19:26:16

Austerity you haven't seen anything yet with the run on the banks, it's not just middle England who will be terrified

I am old enough to remember the winter of discontent and we may be revisiting it again in my life time.

If labour gets in under Corbyn we are heading to Union rule and real POVERTY

Carolinesbeanies Tue 26-Sep-17 23:09:28

"memorabilia being sold in the conference mocking injured soldiers, which to my mind is frankly sick what ever you thought of the Iraq & Afgan wars)."

This is such scummy behaviour at a political conference, and its all about context. I gather they also sell 'become a suicide bomber - join the Royal Navy' (refering to the nuclear capacity) and 'ban the queen' badges.

Whats equally offensive is theyre rallying rent a mob for next weeks Tory Conference. When no one can string an intelligent argument or policy together, lets just send the mob in to disrupt and divide. Hateful, divisive and truly nasty, and theyre supposed to be a mainstream political party.

Its a bleak day, when you have to get a hat that says "Make Britain Great Again" from a UKIP conference.

UrsulaPandress Tue 26-Sep-17 23:13:03

I am scared for the future.

OrlandaFuriosa Tue 26-Sep-17 23:18:08

As well as the scary level of anti semitism and denial of it, the thuggish behaviour, it's the economic stupidity that gets me. We've already been downgraded again...

GhostofFrankGrimes Thu 28-Sep-17 16:49:11

Whats equally offensive is theyre rallying rent a mob for next weeks Tory Conference. When no one can string an intelligent argument or policy together, lets just send the mob in to disrupt and divide. Hateful, divisive and truly nasty, and theyre supposed to be a mainstream political party.

Utter bollocks. There is nothing wrong with protest, it is part of a healthy democracy. Remember democracy, that thing Brexiteers kept banging on about? The EU referendum and the tabloids have sown division.

As well as the scary level of anti semitism and denial of it, the thuggish behaviour, it's the economic stupidity that gets me. We've already been downgraded again...

I'd like to see evidence of widespread anti semitism. The downgrade has happened on the Tories Brexit watch. We've had 7 years of failed austerity.

OrlandaFuriosa Thu 28-Sep-17 19:07:21

I agree the downgrade has happened on the Tories' watch and it's mainly down to them and the Coalition not having been able to put right the inheritance from Labour. And, no, I've not forgotten who it was who managed the financial crisis to such acclaim, which was indeed impressive.

But the apparent inability or unwillingness to cost policies or say where the money is coming from alongside phrases such as "run on the pound" have the markets understandably less than convinced about fiscal competence.

GhostofFrankGrimes Thu 28-Sep-17 20:17:43

And, no, I've not forgotten who it was who managed the financial crisis to such acclaim, which was indeed impressive.

If you are referring to 2008, it is well known outside of right wing circles that this stemmed from American sub prime.

But the apparent inability or unwillingness to cost policies or say where the money is coming from alongside phrases such as "run on the pound" have the markets understandably less than convinced about fiscal competence.

In the run up to the last election May told a nurse there was no magic money tree. A few weeks later she gave the DUP 1.5 billion quid. The hard right want a hard brexit - which will make most Brits permanently poorer. Implementing Brexit will cost billions. The British economy has been in the gutter since the referendum. Bit rich of the right to attack Labour's economic policies.

endofthelinefinally Thu 28-Sep-17 20:23:52

I remember the winter of discontent.
And I remember how awful British rail was back in the days when everything was nationalised.
I do hope they will think it through properly when re-nationalising everything.

cdtaylornats Thu 28-Sep-17 20:33:05

Actually Northern Ireland was given £1.5 billion which wont matter if they don't get their act together and form an executive.

Contrast this to the £220 billion to buy out PFIs

£220 billion is a money tree, £1.5 IS barely a weed

GhostofFrankGrimes Thu 28-Sep-17 20:57:43

And I remember how awful British rail was back in the days when everything was nationalised.

Have you seen the price of rail season tickets recently? The state of Southern Rail?

£220 billion is a money tree, £1.5 IS barely a weed

Ah, so we're moving the goal posts when defining money trees. A few months ago paying nurses was a money tree, then May found £1.5 billion for the DUP. How much will she is need to pay for Brexit? Price worth paying? Amazing what the tories can find down the back of the sofa.

cdtaylornats Thu 28-Sep-17 23:29:52

Labours just selling the sofa.

BT was the real horror, you could get a phone line within a year of applying and even then it would be a party line.

What is it about any major government project that makes people think they could run a major industry. Southern Rail would be a real disaster when the unions Labour government would run it. Driver, co-driver, engineer, guard, door closer and stoker as crew. 10% pay rises every year and no trains after 6 without shift pay

GhostofFrankGrimes Fri 29-Sep-17 06:37:28

BT was privatised in 1982 under the Tories. Privatisation has been a disaster. The free market benefits the rich not the ordinary.

MrsSlocombesPussy Fri 29-Sep-17 06:46:44

Most of our rail companies are state owned, just not by the UK state.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/18/foreign-state-owned-railway-british-train-companies-revenuenn_8003970.html

So state ownership is obviously not that bad.

cdtaylornats Fri 29-Sep-17 07:37:35

The free market benefits anyone with pension. To the point a Labour chancellor felt happy to steal from everyones pension.

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