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Should Corbyn cross the floor?

(23 Posts)
BumpPower Wed 13-Jul-16 13:17:27

Not to be a conservative obv! But could he resign the party whip and stand as an independent/socialist worker party?
He is clearly popular with hard left. Through entrism lots of people joined the labour party to vote him as leader and presumably will do so again. He clearly has supporters but he cannot gain enough support to put together a shadow cabinet. He is not respected by labour MPs so what good would a landslide party membership vote do??

GlassCircles Wed 13-Jul-16 13:50:54

He won't, because he and his supporters believe they ARE the Labour party. They won't give up all the party assets without a fight.

MPs are clearly irrelevant in their grand plan hmm

lljkk Fri 15-Jul-16 20:57:51

I would like to know what Corbyn's plan is, too.

Does he think the PLP will settle down to support him?
Does he think the membership will force a huge change in MPs so he will be fine after next election and can burn bridges with most the current MPs?
Is he playing a long game & everything will be fine if he gets PLP the way he wants it in 2030?
Is he quite happy to criticise the Tory govt until end of time & he has no other functional mode?
He has the persuasive powers of a doorknob, but does he not know that?
Maybe he took too many psychotropic drugs in the 1970s. He certainly behaves like a man in touch with only his own version of reality.

GlassCircles Sat 16-Jul-16 08:53:59

It might be my imagination but he seems to be slightly upping his game with regard to engaging with the wider electorate (ie anyone who isnt a slavishly adoring fan). Too little too late it looks like, but who knows, he might be able to pull it off if he takes the advice of some of the professional PRs he so despises.

Dozer Sat 16-Jul-16 08:58:44

The RL corbyn supporters I know repeatedly emphasise his support from party members, but that isn't necessarily representative of the electorate!

GlassCircles Sat 16-Jul-16 10:37:36

I think that mentality is part of the rather cultish nature of some of Corbyn's support - if the club you're in believes hard enough then of course the world will adapt to fit your vision.

QuackDuckQuack Sat 16-Jul-16 10:49:32

It's time for a reorganisation of the left-centre. Labour and the LibDems need to be able to step away from their legacy of the Iraq war and tuition fees. So breaking up and reforming into a centre left and hard left party might be the right direction to go. The centre left party might be electable.

gillybeanz Sat 16-Jul-16 10:53:28

I think he's fighting for what he believes in and I admire him for not being bullied by the establishment.
Maybe he doesn't have a plan but is trying to evoke change so that labour actually is Labour and not a watered down conservative.

GlassCircles Sat 16-Jul-16 11:26:03

Maybe he doesn't have a plan but is trying to evoke change so that labour actually is Labour and not a watered down conservative.

I don't have a problem with that, but he needs to actively sell it to a wider audience and explain how it will work. Those elements seem to be missing at the moment.

This means less of the self-indulgent rallies and a more professional approach to engaging with all kinds of media, imho.

Dozer Sat 16-Jul-16 16:17:17

I don't think you can call 170+ Elected labour MPs "the establishment": or (as some labour members have said on Tv etc) "bullies" : they're not all going to be right wing blairites!

Mind you I don't think much of maria eagle or owen thingamy either.

lljkk Sat 16-Jul-16 17:48:24

I am currently working it out as...

Establishment or "Elites" = people who like the status quo, don't want too much change or disruption, think that many problems require careful solutions (*)

Visionary Leader / Person of principle = Person who gets attention by appealing to the lowest common denominator, have simple solutions to every problem, happy to change the status quo (&)

* In the old days, these people were called "grown-ups" or "conservatives" (with small c)

& Used to be called populists

I just found out that my cousin is a Wall Street Banker, very Republican. Her dad asked who would she support for President. "Hillary, of course" came the answer. "She's the only adult at the table!"

BurnTheBlackSuit Sat 16-Jul-16 18:04:51

It depends on who The Labour Party is/ who it belongs to. It can be argued as the elected MPs or the members or the Unions or as a combination. This is why Labour are in such difficulties at the moment- the MPs seem to have completely different opinions to the Members and the Unions (I think).

Incidentally, according to Wikipedia, the Labour Party was established to look after the workers (by the unions), the Liberal party existed to support businesses and the Conservative Party existed to look after the interests of the Landed classes.

Boogers Sat 16-Jul-16 18:37:59

Corbyn seems like a decent constituency MP but, for me, he's an embarrassment as leader of the opposition and the idea of him as PM is just laughable.

I went to the Durham Miners' Gala last weekend, as I have done for the last 16 years, and there was a lot of support for Corbyn as well as a lot of feeling that Blair should be jailed for war crimes, but this support is from extreme far left types who think capitalism is evil and strongly disagree with personal wealth, no matter how small or how gained. They mostly wore SWP t-shirts and handed out copies of the Morning Star.

The SWP will never, ever, ever be elected for a majority in parliament, just like UKIP will never, ever, ever be elected. They are the extremes of mainstream parties who have leached onto electable ideas.

UKIP is already coming close 2nd in some northern constituencies, and Corbyn would be well advised to get his arse north of Watford Gap a bit more often if he wants to stop this happening even more. He is losing heartland. I've been out of the loop for a couple of days so forgive me if he's had a prolonged stay in Sheffield or Bolton, followed by attending, say, the Great Yorkshire Show etc, though quite frankly he could walk bare arsed down Northumberland Street and the news wouldn't pick it up. Where's Alastair Campbell when you need him?

lljkk Tue 19-Jul-16 10:03:31

Is there anywhere online that gives Corbyn's diary (past)?

I keep reading that Corbyn was invited to do X or Y event but declined, and maybe instead went to A or B event. The person telling the story makes the case that X & Y were very important.

Or Corbyn agreed publicly that Labour would take X position but then he briefed reporters saying ABC (completely different stuff, contradictory to X). And other stories about how he undermined other MPs.

I want someone to document it all, I'm trying to get a picture just what are his priorities.

HappydaysArehere Sat 23-Jul-16 10:38:51

Corbyn is being used by the hard militant left. Listen to what he has to say. It's full of pie in the sky and contains as little substance as the Brexit lot had to offer. However, make no mistake, Corbyn is a front man for a dangerous element in our politics. Beware a wolf in sheep's clothing.

eatsleephockeyrepeat Tue 26-Jul-16 14:37:11

Wowee, hard militant left? Jeez, I don't event think he's that FAR on the left! The whole political spectrum has shifted rightwards making anyone who believe in re-nationalising private elements of the NHS look fanatical it seems.

I strongly advise this link showing where on the left/right spectrum UK parties were at the 2010 election and how they have all shifted on that spectrum over time.

eatsleephockeyrepeat Tue 26-Jul-16 14:40:33

Just to pick up on a comment in the OP, "Through entryism lots of people joined the labour party to vote him as leader and presumably will do so again."

It appears you think entryism is joining an organisation whose principles you believe in and immediately voting in an election because you want a particular result. This is not entryism, although the word "entryism" does lend itself to that belief. That is in fact perfectly legitimate behaviour by all accounts.

This is a quick Wikipedia definition of entryism:

Entryism (also referred to as entrism or enterism, or as infiltration) is a political strategy in which an organisation or state encourages its members or supporters to join another, usually larger, organisation in an attempt to expand influence and expand their ideas and program. In situations where the organization being "entered" is hostile to entrism, the entrists may engage in a degree of subterfuge to hide the fact that they are an organisation in their own right.

unexpsoc Tue 26-Jul-16 15:50:18

Go on then> I will bite. What do you mean by entryism? Do you mean that "by engaging with a much wider group of people he has managed to increase the membership of the Labour party beyond levels it has seen for 50 years"? Or do you mean that "by allowing back the trots we kicked out in the 80s he has managed to unbalance the party towards unavoidable doom"?

eatsleephockeyrepeat Tue 26-Jul-16 16:04:23

by allowing back the trots we kicked out in the 80s he has managed to unbalance the party towards unavoidable doom

Well you really don't need to bite, I thought we were having a discussion??

Anyway I've decided this hilarious article (hilarious in my opinion, obvs) can say what I was going to better than I can, so here's a quote...

"When Corbyn stood for leader, 200,000 people joined Labour and another 120,000 have joined in the last month. But, as MP Bob Marshall-Andrews said, “This is a return of the Trotskyists we had in the 1980s.” Some people might dispute this on the grounds we might have noticed 320,000 idle Trotskyists over the last 30 years, and it seems odd that 120,000 of them who couldn’t be bothered to join last year left it until now. They must be lazy Trotskyists.

A huge number of the new members are under 30, which shows how cunning they are; the last time they managed to infiltrate the Labour Party was before they were born, the Trotskyist menaces."

unexpsoc Tue 26-Jul-16 16:34:40

eatsleep - yes I saw that article. Sums up my views beautifully. I believed that I was joining a party I hadn't previously felt I could join because it was further right than me politically, who knew I was a trot?

eatsleephockeyrepeat Tue 26-Jul-16 16:44:03

Haha, unexpsoc, I think I misunderstood your earlier comment; I thought you were indeed SUGGESTING it was the return of the Trots!

niceguy2 Thu 11-Aug-16 09:39:27

And to think they only added Corbyn to the original list of leadership candidates to add some diversity to the leadership race. He was never supposed to win, let alone threaten to tear the Labour party apart.

When you add in the decision to allow a referendum where we were never supposed to vote to actually leave the EU, it seems politician's need to be very careful what they wish for nowadays.

EnthusiasmDisturbed Thu 11-Aug-16 17:51:52

Yes he should

He should have joined the Socialist Labour Party when it formed his views are perfectly placed there

But he wouldn't be voted in as an MP and got paid to rebel again and again against his own party if he did

Sadly he will win the leadership contest and labour will split and in the meantime the Tories have pulled themselves together and shall win the next election

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