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24 hours to go and I still cannot decide! Help!

(35 Posts)
MTWTFSS Wed 22-Jun-16 07:52:36

I honestly never thought I would be in this position! It is so difficult!!!

So I do want to remain, but one niggle is driving me crazy. Why are we sending so much money to Europe (8.5bn last year)?

£227bn UK exports to EU, whereas £288bn UK imports from EU... that is a £61bn trade deficit with EU countries.

It just feels like Europe is using us.

WellErrr Wed 22-Jun-16 07:55:30

They are. We give far more than we get, that's why they don't want us to Leave.

Just ask yourself this - if we weren't in the EU now, would you vote to join? I certainly wouldn't.

Borogoves Wed 22-Jun-16 07:58:13

For an unbiased viewpoint setting out the facts read this. It certainly made things clearer for me.

ThroughThickAndThin01 Wed 22-Jun-16 07:59:27

I feel Europe is using us too. I think that's been growing and will continue more so.

I think the whole thing will implode and take us down with it. Better to be out now on more if our terms.

I think if we remain we'll be punished for putting them all through this. I think if we remain it'll give the EU the green light to walk all over us. That may be simplistic, but that's how I feel.

AStreetcarNamedBob Wed 22-Jun-16 08:00:50

Of course Europe is using is. We are one of the wealthy countless in a relationship with Romania, Greece, and other similar economies.

If we weren't in Europe now and someone suggested joining they'd be laughed out of parliament.

Give it 10 years and countries like turkey and Egypt will probably have joined. They keep letting in more and more countries that don't bring anything to the party.

neonrainbow Wed 22-Jun-16 08:01:25

I'll be voting in because the british government cannot be trusted to look after our best interests.

BoxofSnails Wed 22-Jun-16 08:02:05

Have you read the JK Rowling article? It's brilliant
But then I have no problem with 0.3% of our annual budget - did you see the graphs last night? - going out and not as much coming back. We should be delighted to find ourselves in such a well off country.

Lweji Wed 22-Jun-16 08:03:41

OP, do you think the export difference will become better if the UK leaves?

Benefiting financially struggling countries can only improve Europe in general. Less migration pressure as local economies grow and more exports to those countries. Less chance of rogue leaders and war or social unrest.

peggyundercrackers Wed 22-Jun-16 08:07:16

They are using us. It's not just Greece who has a shit economy, look at Italy, Spain, Portugal etc. Etc. None of these countries are making any money but they are spending like it's going out of fashion. Very soon the piper will need paid and who will they look to to help pay it? The better off countries within the Eu that's who e.g. US. The Euro will implode soon even if we vote to stay because there we too many countries with massive debt who cannot pay it back. Best get out now while the going is good and we aren't liable for their bad management.

MTWTFSS Wed 22-Jun-16 08:07:47

Lweji That is true smile

IrenetheQuaint Wed 22-Jun-16 08:15:50

We've had a negative balance of trade (more imports than exports, across the world not just with the EU) for AGES.

We are just not that great at making stuff people abroad want to buy any more (with some major exceptions, obviously). I don't think that's a reason for leaving in itself, especially as it will probably get worse if we leave (as the EU will probably put trade barriers against UK goods unless we join the EEA and accept free movement of people).

WellErrr Wed 22-Jun-16 08:45:58

For an unbiased viewpoint...

You can hardly say that and then link to an article entitled 'Why I will be voting Remain' grin

ThroughThickAndThin01 Wed 22-Jun-16 08:49:10

Have a look at the 'why are we staying in the EU if we are selling everything off' thread. That's a really scary list.

The EU is definitely taking from the UK, hand over fist it appears.

Mrsmorton Wed 22-Jun-16 08:56:32

If you can't decide, voting in would be sensible whilst you make your mind up. You can vote differently next time, if you vote out, there won't be a next time.

WellErrr Wed 22-Jun-16 08:58:54

There won't be a next time either way MrsM, that's very naive.

purits Wed 22-Jun-16 08:59:20

Haven't read in full that article from the LSE bloke (cause otherwise the thread will run away) but I disagree with his trade argument.
The bad thing about the EU is that it seems too self-contained. It trades within itself, it doesn't look outside. We might trade with them but it seems to be at the expense of trading with the Rest of the World. We are restricted from making our own deals, we have to go with the EU trade deal.
We used to trade lots with RoW (our old commonwealth partners) but the EU put a stop to that. They want us caught closer and closer in their web.

Lweji Wed 22-Jun-16 09:02:39

There won't be a next time either way MrsM, that's very naive.
What about chances to rejoin if all goes tits up?

purits Wed 22-Jun-16 09:03:05

Look at how it has panned out recently - we opted out of Schengen, we opted out of the Euro, we opted out of ever-closer-union.
We are going in a different direction to the rest of the EU. It's about time that we admitted that we/they are not a good fit.
Trade with them - yes; but all the rest of the baggage? - no.

purits Wed 22-Jun-16 09:04:06

What about chances to rejoin if all goes tits up?

snurk. I think you meant 'when' not 'if'.

Lweji Wed 22-Jun-16 09:04:48

The UK hasn't opted out of science funding and has been getting a lot from the EC.

harryhausen Wed 22-Jun-16 09:11:43

I'm a bit undecided too OP. I thought I'd (eventually) chosen Remain but now I'm wobbling again.
I knew I'd be like this. I'm a classic floating voter who listens to politics show for fun. I work from home and have all the talk on pretty much all day. I think I've listened too much.

I really think I'll have to decide in booth.

Mrsmorton Wed 22-Jun-16 09:14:53

There won't be a next time either way MrsM, that's very naive.

So you can absolutely categorically guarantee that there will never ever be another EU referendum?

That's interesting, what else can you guarantee? Will Ipswich get promoted this season? Will it rain at my party on 20 July?

Toffeelatteplease Wed 22-Jun-16 09:16:21

If you don't know spoil your ballot.

Your vote should reflect how you feel. There are a lot of people who feel very strongly about this. Should your vote negate one of theirs?

Great if you genuinely are persuaded one way or another in the next 24 hours.

purits Wed 22-Jun-16 09:20:56

You know that the EU is set up to benefit German manufacturing and French agriculture. The reason why the EU expands is because Germany needs to find new customers to buy its BMWs.
Have you noticed how the poor countries get poorer (Greece, Spain, Portugal, etc) but Germany just keeps getting richer? They sell them the dream of new motorways and peace in our time but they end up worse off economically.
Some day, those chickens will come home to roost.

WhirlwindHugs Wed 22-Jun-16 09:22:50

The reality is although we send lots of money to the EU we get lots back for projects that the government of the day won't nevessarily want to spend money on but are needed. The close trade links also pay for themselves by the bucketload.

The sugfestion of lots of leavers is thatwe replace the EU with the commonwealth, but none of the commonwealth countries want us to leave!

Personally, I don't really understand wanting to leave the EU. It makes us money, it keeps things peaceful, it gives us the opportunity to solce difficult problems together. Sulking and leaving is hugely unlikely to get us what we want but sending MEPs who care and want to engage has been really effective. We get what we want the vast majority of the time. It's often really where we've sent idiot MEPs who don't go to meetings or vote (looking at you Farage) that we don't get what we want for our contribution!

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