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Explain how Leaving EU will be a good thing... Question for Out People

(13 Posts)
lljkk Sat 20-Feb-16 10:29:57

Could you use this thread to make the Out Picture Appealing by saying what the positives are, and explain ways to get them?

Don't say "We won't have XYZ problem any more."... criticism without alternative vision is easy & meaningless. It doesn't help people make decisions, it only appeals to politics of Fear.

I want to hear "We will all have higher wages because companies will pay less taxes to support EU & therefore want to pay their staff more" or "Deportation of nasty people will be much faster because UK will have much simpler laws to do that" or "NHS will be better staffed because immigration rules to import doctors from China will be a lot simpler" type statements.*

So here is chance to Sell the case for leaving rather against staying. So many folk are sure of their Out Vote, so how does Out work well, what are the practical details & how will it achieve what it will achieve ?

*My vision sounds like massive amount of legal code changes to see the supposed benefits, is there another way?...

RortyCrankle Sat 20-Feb-16 14:17:54

Read the 500+ page thread in In The News - lots of answers posted there.

lljkk Sat 20-Feb-16 17:48:11

95% of Leave posts on that thread are "I'm leaving because I hate X". It's a lot of dross to wade thru.

With effort I found some other sections of Out discussion ...

"UK employers will invest more in training and paying UK staff because they won't be able to easily access cheap foreign labour."

"We will be able to reject EU economic migrants and accept lots more refugees from rest of world instead"

"We would get rid of foreign criminals faster" (but refute to that is interesting)

3 reasons why leaving is attractive and reasons to vote Out besides disliking status quo... just 3 after 500+ posts???

Seems like people voting to Leave all have lots of specific detail what they are voting against, but few tangible specifics what they would be voting for. Out campaign needs to really hammer on some positive msgs to convince folk.

RortyCrankle Sat 20-Feb-16 18:33:43

lljkk nice selective reading there.

lljkk Sat 20-Feb-16 19:00:29

Please list many good things I missed in the 500+ thread.
Only rule is: you can't list statements like "I don't like X (fullstop)"
There has to be an alternative improved situation described, with specifics what it is and how it happens.

Else the Out people have poor idea what they are voting for, only know what they vote against.

thebiscuitindustry Sun 28-Feb-16 20:45:31

There has to be an alternative improved situation described, with specifics what it is and how it happens.

Why? We don't know what will happen if we stay in the EU either. No-one has a crystal ball.

redhotfire123 Sat 14-May-16 11:11:18

Watch Brexit - The Movie. That explains why OUT people want OUT !

scaryteacher Sun 15-May-16 13:21:39

I will be voting out for security, democracy and the ability to hold those in power to account.

Limer Mon 23-May-16 07:56:22

Sovereignty, the ability to vote for or vote out those in charge.

To not be part of a group where the far right are becoming stronger and stronger as each day passes.

BMW6 Sat 28-May-16 23:46:03

Because I want us to decide our laws for our citizens.

Spinflight Mon 06-Jun-16 20:11:41

Well if you've waded through threads already then I'll point out a few of the lesser talked about things.

Yes I anticipate higher wages and more opportunities for our young people, both due to decreased competition for cheap readily available labour and the need to retain and train rather than hire and fire.

First off a Brexit vote would slowly see a rebalancing of the economy away from London and the Southeast and back towards our traditional model.

The likes of Bristol, South Wales, Liverpool and Glasgow became great cities on the back of their ports and trading links with the rest of the world. With the current focus on Europe it is the South East which benefits, whilst many of the other coastal areas have been left to decay and neglect, particularly with the utter destruction of our fishing industry.

In fact reading through the remain camps literature it strikes me that you have to put ,"In London" before most of their statements for them to be true. Often, "In middle class or above London".

The infrastructure is already there in most cases but we'd see less of London needs a new airport and power itself being spread across the country. Might take a couple of years for the real effects to kick in but newly emboldened and revived cities outside the SE would, I think, be wholly beneficial to our political as well as social landscape.

We'd see more opportunities in manufacturing, technical and heavy industry and less in services ( call centres to you and I) particularly as our small and medium sized companies gained traction in the emerging markets of the commonwealth. Rather then relying on foreign firms establishing themselves here to access the European market we would be establishing ourselves overseas in order to access their own markets.

This is vitally important, particularly with regards to India and the soon to rapidly grow economies in Africa. Companies would be exporting not just their wares but their talent too, looking for worldwide opportunities rather than hoping for external investment.

Decreased pressure on the NHS would see the vast sums invested finally going into preventative medicine rather than it having to constantly react to the latest crisis. Trusts would be able to plan based upon a relatively fixed number of people, rather than seeing their ten year projections for population growth outstripped within 2 years. I think we'd only realise just how much our free at the point of delivery service had cost us in retrospect, there are no cash registers in the NHS.

Give it a few years and we'd see less congestion on the roads, an export based economy showing large surpluses , stronger ties and cooperation with some old friends worldwide , the regions booming and some of the big businesses which currently dictate policy ( looking at you bankers) losing their influence and power.

We'd also see the old guard who currently man the remain phone lines ( Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Osbourne, Kinnock, Clegg etc) utterly discredited, that's the large majority of our current MPs.

Blanket denials that they'd ever supported the EU would bring hollow laughs ( as they currently do with regards the Euro) and a bloodbath at the elections. We'd see new blood, and not merely the Oxbridge set of PPE students, entering into politics and challenging old assumptions. Maybe even the fragmentation of the two largest parties, as frankly those on the side of project hope seem to have more in common despite their left or right leanings than they do with their supposed peers.

Our institutions, freed of the need to merely implement EU law, would reassert themselves as professional bodies would gain importance. The Unions too most likely. New dynamics in the skilled labour market would see opportunities arise as companies would need people willing to relocate worldwide as consuls for their interests abroad.

We'd still trade and cooperate with Europe, but from a position of strength and as good neighbors rather than reluctant tenants. As a proportion our trade with Europe would continue to decline and we'd slowly eat into the German advantage.

Finally I think we'd watch in horror as the internal contradictions in the EU were laid bare. A select few would follow us out as the southern states of the EU weighed down the productive parts. The protectionism and ugly politics would appear as foreign to us as it always should have.

HappydaysArehere Sat 09-Jul-16 09:03:27

And pigs will fly. Happiness!

lljkk Mon 11-Jul-16 20:25:02

Weird this thread has limped along.

When I was in Ireland in 1997 I was struck by all the punt-shops in every rural small town. Eire didn't make its own stuff & it obviously had a low wage low skill economy. it felt like a sleepy backwater... and that's the best case scenario for where I think Out of Europe leads us. I feel shock at the idea that we'd have more wealth to invest in our young people, or that we could somehow compete with raw manufacturing power of commonwealth nations. What overwhelms NHS is our own ageing population & there's plenty more of them to come.

The dictionary definition of "few" = 2 or 3, couple = 2, so will verify if road congestion is reduced within next 3 yrs, or whether any cities are "emboldened" within 2 yrs after A50 is triggered. Higher wages for youth is a nice testable assertion, too.

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