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McDonnell's Speech - Barnstormer. Panic in the usual circles

(157 Posts)
claig Mon 28-Sep-15 12:56:10

Stunning speech by John McDonnell.

Elite in panic, 1% ers at a loss of what to do.
BBC probably instructed to try and stop the people.
Crisis meetings in gentlemens' clubs.
Directors, Director Generals, Lieutenants, Sergeants, Lords, Ladies, Barons and Baronesses in meltdown.

Teenage whizzkids at Oxbridge wooed with whopping wonga to staff think tanks whose aim is to stop the people.

All luvvies' leave cancelled, metropolitans told they have a mountain to climb to stop the people.

McDonnell, gamechanger? You betcha.

Elite already practising their pitch, sharpoening up their spin, calling all their luvvies in a last ditch attempt to stop the people. They'll be on TV tonight, the Tory-lites trying to do what the elite think is right, to stop the people with all their might.

Can the people win? Can they see through the luvvies' spin? Will they put the luvvies in the bin?

Jez they can!

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 13:14:48

Economists like Ann Pettifor, Joseph Stiglitz, Thomas Piketty, Mariana Mazzucato to advise McDonnell.

What have the elite got in reponse? The Bullingdon, the Ant Hill Mob and the Piers Gaveston? I don't know what they get up to there (and I certainly don't want to find out the details) but I don't think it has got anything to do with economics.

Isitmebut Mon 28-Sep-15 13:22:20

The economists including Danny Blanchflower(?) that preach Old Labour high taxes, high spending - when Corbyn says that as 'he agrees with George', he will balance our annual budget.

So unlimited State controls, benefits and taxes it IS then. lol

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 13:24:29

I don't expect you, the luvvies, the metropolitan elite, rooftop wind turbine manufacturers and the Piers Gaveston to happy with McDonnell's speech, but the people gave McDonnell a standing ovation.

Isitmebut Mon 28-Sep-15 13:27:23

We have had the Kremlin's response to the Labour Party coming home to them, here is a more how it will affect the masses in the UK assessment of what Corbyn/McDonnell did or didn't say at this conference.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/2476252-Labour-s-Old-McDonnell-won-t-bet-the-UK-farm-ei-ei-oh-yeah?msgid=56798990#56798990

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 13:29:49

Is that a link to Piers Gaveston type photographs? I'm not interested, I don't want to see that, I'm with the people, with McDonnell, not with the elite.

Isitmebut Mon 28-Sep-15 13:58:38

I'm with the (anti Tory) people,

Unless Syrian, but that's above your pay grade.

You forgot to mention the (anti Tory) UKIP Party you supported for years; have you not had a formal order to switch allegiance yet?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/2476354-UKIP-Conference-debating-whether-to-deselect-their-only-Westminster-MP

Alyosha Mon 28-Sep-15 16:53:54

Claig, your endorsement is generally political death.

Labour does not win when promising to tax people more money.

It might be the right policy, but it's not a vote winner.

Alyosha Mon 28-Sep-15 16:55:23

Also, I wouldn't let your fellow Kremlinbots get too pleased just yet - the more they crow, the more Corbyn is pressured to move away from Russia.

He's backtracked on his terrorist sympathies, he'll be backing the true Ukrainian left next (i.e. the ones who aren't preventing MSF aid convoys from reaching Donbas and letting the population starve because what Russia says goes).

Behooven Mon 28-Sep-15 17:03:07

"I'm with the people" grin

But on a serious note, That man is lower than a snakes belly and I wouldn't give credence to one word from his mouth, even if it is words that are full of popular sound bites...

Alyosha Mon 28-Sep-15 17:22:30

Quite behooven...do the people support Hezbollah, Hamas, the IRA and the Tamil Tigers now?

Behooven Mon 28-Sep-15 17:32:27

Only in private Alyosh Public speeches toe the party line and they say what they're told to say

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 18:01:23

'Labour does not win when promising to tax people more money'

But that is the Labour of the past, the Islington Blairites, the Oxbridge metropolitan elite with stints at Harvard where they are taught what they are allowed to do and say to keep the elite sweet. Now we have Corbyn and McDonnell, who scares the living daylights out of the elite.

The Labour of the past always taxed the middle class strivers, the aspirational working and middle classes who wanted to escape from Labour's dependent client class. Labour wanted to pen them in, slow them down and stunt their aspiration. But if McDonnell tears that policy up and realises that the middle class and the working clas are united against the Blairites and the Piers Gaveston, then Labour will win a landslide because the middle class and working class won't shed a tear if the Piers Gaveston are taxed more, just as Donald Trump is promising for the American people.

Alyosha Mon 28-Sep-15 18:07:03

Wait, wasn't the 99p in the pound tax rate aimed fairly and squarely at the top earners?

And Labour has always proposed higher taxes for higher earners - but people's perception of where they sit relative to their peers is skewed. They think "one day I might earn 6 figures, I don't like this" - those who deserve to be taxed more will always be earning 10k more than you are.

For example a tax rate on the top 10% of earners would start at £45k each fora two person household. A lot of money - but still "middle class", still the salary kids at school think they will make, that aspirational people think they can make.

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 18:18:14

'Wait, wasn't the 99p in the pound tax rate aimed fairly and squarely at the top earners?'

Yes and they complained about it and went abroad like Mick Jagger. But it didn't affect the rest of us, we didn't care if the Piers Gaveston were taxed 99.5%, that seemed a bit too low. The problem Labour had was that their Oxbridge elite leadership also taxed the apirational working and middle classes who turned to Thatcher in relief in order to escape the chokehold of the Oxbridge educated, Harvard trained "socialists" who squeezed the middle classes.

'They think "one day I might earn 6 figures, I don't like this"'

No that is BBC spin that the Oxbridge classes tell the Oxbridge BBC to say, the PPEs to say, in order to fool the people. Most of us will never earn six figure salaries and we don't care if they tax Blair to the hilt, what we care about is that they cut tax for the poor and the middle class just as populist billionaire Donald Trump is promising to do. Trump says he will soak Wall Street and the American people don't care and the people here won't care if they soak the City, Blair and the Piers Gaveston.

The 99% tax rate was only on income above a threshold, not on Blair's entire income for example.

'For example a tax rate on the top 10% of earners would start at £45k each fora two person household. A lot of money - but still "middle class", still the salary kids at school think they will make, that aspirational people think they can make.'

Yes, but if McDonnell is smart, then he will exempt the middle class because we will then vote Labour. Higher tax rates should be set at higher income levels and should hit the elite's charidees, their perks, their expenses, their faith foundations, their trust funds and all the other mechanisms they use to escape what the squeezed middle are forced to pay.

Alyosha Mon 28-Sep-15 18:27:43

I think people did care, actually - that's why Thatcher was successful...

People like to think that one day, they too will earn 6 figures. I think that. Lots of people think that. That's why very high taxation rates were very unpopular. Even if they don't affect you, people think that they might.

So is the top 10% now not who Labour should target? The top 5%? Those people are still on salaries of around £70-£100k. A huge amount - but again, in the people's minds £1million is a lot...and a tax on those people will raise peanuts.

The whole point of taxing people is to raise money, a tax on those who earn over £150k doesn't really earn all tha tmuch, certainly nowhere near enough to fund tax credits.

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 18:29:04

McDonnell says he will make the corporations pay what they have to. The Bullingdon won't be burning any more £50 notes in front of homeless people because that privileged elite think that is funny, because they will be too busy paying tax to McDonnell and the people, and guess what, the people won't care however many crocodile tears the BBC cries on their behalf.

Alyosha Mon 28-Sep-15 18:36:28

Well that's nice, the conservatives (and Ed Balls, and Tony Blair) said that too. Let's see how he simplifies the tax system to remove the loopholes - it would be nice to see some detail.

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 18:39:00

'I think people did care, actually - that's why Thatcher was successful...'

The people didn't give two hoots that Mick Jagger and certain Piers Gaveston members had to pay 99% above a certain threshold, what they cared about was that the Oxford and Harvard "socialists" were taxing the poor and the squeezed middle. That is why they went to Thatcher.

'People like to think that one day, they too will earn 6 figures. I think that. Lots of people think that. That's why very high taxation rates were very unpopular. Even if they don't affect you, people think that they might.'

This is the elite's propaganda, the spin they train their tenage whizzkids to spout on the BBC. We all think that if we work hard we may one day earn 6 figures, but if we do make it then we are alos prepared to pay higher tax above the six figure threshold. We don't believe the spin of the teenage whizzkids.

'The top 5%? Those people are still on salaries of around £70-£100k.'

Somebody has to pay more and it shouldn't be those on disability benefits or those hit by the bedroom tax. It should be Blair and that lot and the corporations and the City and the charidees and the faith foundations and the trust funds and the BBC stars who invested in tax schemes that ended up with them slashing the tax they paid on their publicly funded salaries.

'The whole point of taxing people is to raise money, a tax on those who earn over £150k doesn't really earn all tha tmuch'

Why do you think the elite are so terrified of McDonnell? They can just about deal with the prospect of Corbyn, but McDonnell drives them over the edge. That is why their teenage whizzkids are on mandatory overtime because McDonnell is going to follow the money, find the money and tax it. There's lots of money around and McDonnel is going to get some of it and as long as he doesn't squeeze the middle, he will win a landslide.

mateysmum Mon 28-Sep-15 18:41:51

Here we go again. The Tory party and all its voters are rich bastards called Piers Gaviston.

McDonnell spoke to the faithful of freedom for the workers, free money and sunshine every day. No numbers, no firm policies - it is too early for that I grant him. But the man is a dangerous fool. How can he do all he says - re-nationalise railways/raise benefits etc / end austerity/ spend, spend spend and still aggressively balance the budget. Peoples QE is a road to disaster.There is no such thing as free money.For all his words about taxing business and the rich he will never raise what he wants to spend. IMHO!. I remember the 70's and I never, ever want to go back there again, which for all the claims of new economics would be where McDonnell would take us.

And just in case you hadn't noticed, first, Corbyn would need to win an election and I don't see that happening anytime soon

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 18:41:53

'Well that's nice, the conservatives (and Ed Balls, and Tony Blair) said that too'

But no one believed them. They went to Oxbridge with a detour via Harvard. The elite weren't worried by them. They laughed like billio while they pocketed their expenses and drank their champagne and did whatever they do at the Piers Gaveston. They were "all in it together", laughing at the people.

But they aren't laughing at McDonnell because they know that when he says it, he means it and the people know that too.

mateysmum Mon 28-Sep-15 18:44:11

Oh and do you really think that if the money was just sitting there waiting to be collected, Osbourne wouldn't have gone and got it.

Raise income tax to 60% plus a hike in NI and you will raise less tax not more. Look what has happened to France and how Holland has had to back down.

mateysmum Mon 28-Sep-15 18:45:12

"The People" Yep would those be the same ones that just voted in a majority Conservative government????

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 18:47:25

'The Tory party and all its voters are rich bastards called Piers Gaviston.'

Its voters aren't (they are the working and aspirational middle classes who turned to Thatcher to escape the chokehold of the Labour "socialists") and they will turn to UKIP and Labour. Some Tories were members of the Piers Gaveston.

' Corbyn would need to win an election and I don't see that happening anytime soon'

Blair, Mandelson, Kinnock, Gordon Bennett and Chuka didn't see it happening either, but they are learning fast.

claig Mon 28-Sep-15 18:49:07

'Oh and do you really think that if the money was just sitting there waiting to be collected, Osbourne wouldn't have gone and got it.'

Of course I do. He is Bullingdon, PPE. He's hardly going to go after his mates and the donors and the lobbyists and the elite, but McDonnell will.

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