Scottish Labour seems to be imploding

[AgentProvocateur]

Johann Lamont resigns because she feels there's too much interference from London, and the Scottish party should be autonomous. The irony!

The ScotLabs are in a policy void, and are a party of political pygmies. There is no obvious successor to Johann Lamont, who was a particularly uninspiring, bitter leader who was more interested in putting down the SNP than putting forward any ideas. They've lost their core support, and I think they are in terminal decline.

[Bewooohooove]

Cracks appeared during the Indy ref campaign. I read an excellent article about how shocked Douglas Alexander was at the rudderless 'campaign' when he arrived. Apparently Red Ed was in the habit of "rolling his eyes" whenever the Indy subject was raised in London.
I don't think Darling was being listened to either, and certainly not Brown who Ed seems to actively dislike.

[AgentProvocateur]

I think Red Ed (or pale blue Ed) has no idea of the political landscape here, and how deep the loyalty to Labour in certain areas once was, and is no longer. Both Lab and ScotLab have taken votes for granted. The next couple of years will be very interesting.

[Isitmebut]

All the more important to get 'English MPs for English votes' sorted out THIS parliament, rather than trust a Labour/Miliband government from 2015 with MORE SNP Westminster MPs, trying to win back Scottish voters by 2020 by capitulating. IMO.

[FannyFifer]

SNP may have lost the referendum but look to be far from the losers, 85,000 members, a great new FM & 3 excellent candidates for deputy leader.

If only there had been a way for "Scottish" labour to become an actual party, not a branch office, wonder what could have changed that...

[FannyFifer]

Sarah Boyack (who) just confirmed she standing for leader.

[OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub]

www.itv.com/news/border/2014-10-28/boyack-set-to-stand-for-scottish-labour-leadership/ More about the three (maybe) candidates.

[FannyFifer]

I have a bet that Alec Rowley will throw his hat in the ring.

[OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub]

Twitter tells me "they're" still putting pressure on Gordon Brown to stand. Of the names mentioned, I'd say Sarah Boyack is the best, though Alex Rowley and Neil Findlay are both decent candidates. Murphy and Brown are too tainted with the dinosaur thing, and are not in touch with the way things are up here. Either would be disastrous for the party come May.

[FannyFifer]

Rowley is brutal but has ambition, Gordon Browns boy.

Findlay, all I know about him is he often does points of order in parliament that are not points of order, doesn't seem to understand how if works, or what it means.

[Isitmebut]

Fannyfifer ... FYI I'm not a Labour supporter (I'm worse lol), but out of interest, whether speaking personally, with an SNP hat on, maybe both - in your opinion, who do you think would give the 'ScotLabs' (which to a soft southerner, almost sounds anatomical) the best chance to turn things around in Scotland for Labour?

Personally I wrote at the time of the Scottish Referendum that I was impressed with the campaigning (and egg swerving 'moves') of Jim Murphy, but as I don't follow Labour individual performances too closely, what do I know.

[FannyFifer]

I honestly can't think of a single one of their current elected members who could turn things around.

The problem seems to be that a lot of their experienced, higher calibre MSP's lost their seats, so the standard of their list MSPs is pretty low.

Having an MP as leader in Scotland is a death wish for the party.

Actually, Malcolm Chisholm doesn't usually seem as consumed by hatred of the SNP as the rest of their MSP's.

[FannyFifer]

Re the Jim Murphy Irn bru crate tour,each place he visited he became more & more confrontational & antagonistic to anyone that dared question him on his stance.

He was pretty rude & aggressive, pissing folk off so then he would get heckled.

The funniest one was when he posted a pic of himself on said crate on the Royal Mile during the festival & tried to claim the hoards of folk were there to see him.

[museumum]

hmmm.... i think boyak's got a chance with voters, but my god the london party will HATE her...

[Isitmebut]

So Jim is just another politician, using a photo opportunity, with the ability to duck or aggressively attack things thrown at him. Got it. lol

Nationalism aside, would it be fair to say ideologically, both the Labour Party and SNP are very close, and so much of the animosity between both parties standing on a similar electoral/social platform, is one always trying to score points off the other?

[OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub]

Jim "Fuck off! Fuck off! Fuck off!" Murphy? Jim "£200k pa expenses" Murphy? Jim "Friend of Israel" Murphy? Jim "most hated man in Scottish politics" Murphy? Can't see him turning Accounting Unit Scotland into anything most Scots would vote for, certainly not in time for GE2015. He'd be putting a lot of personal gain at risk by standing, too.

[OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub]

X posted; Lab and SNP similar? Gawd, no. Lab have a visceral hatred of the SNP because they're in power, with a majority gvt under a system designed to prevent majority gvts. Devo was supposed to keep Lab in power in Scotland forever, they can't stand it that they're not, and they don't understand why they're not, either. (Hint, Scots like a sort of lefty Lab party, not one that's been following Thatcherite policies since Blair.)

[FannyFifer]

Perhaps many years ago the two parties were similar on some respects, but now, Labour will oppose anything the SNP put forward regardless if it something they should be agreeing with.

[Isitmebut]

Interesting, especially as we have experience of the 'oppose everything' Labour Party down here - which goes some ways to making sure PMQT is like a soggy bun fight every week.

I get your point re New Blairism, but in my opinion, apart from giving the City a free reign, they were still under the 'Clunking Fist' of Brown the 'tax and spend' party of old, but the growing global economy helped him mask it.

Miliband is certainly trying to take Labour back to the Old Labour Days and I know we would have seen more of that if they'd won the 2010 General Election - but even last week, Miliband can't seem to mention a spending policy without attacking a specific industry e.g. tobacco, when we need to grow an economy and infrastructure with a honking great budget deficit, so need all the private investment/jobs we can get (excluding the NHS lol).

I think Labour/SNP hysterics/historics aside, the SNP have now beat the perpetual Scottish Labour scam - I think if push comes to shove next May, Labour might have to bury the hatchet, and we might see a mini love-in, as the parliamentary Labour Party reassesses how best to rebuild its relationship with Scottish voters, including being less mean to the SNP.

Would the new SNP Leader Sturgeon vs the old Salmond make that a tad easier, or having worked so close for so long, cut from same cloth?

[OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub]

If Labour are to have any chance at all, any love-in is going to have to start immediately they have a new leader. They have a huge image problem in Scotland; they got into bed with the Tories for the indyref, and plenty of folk, even traditional Lab voters, are not going to forgive them for that. About 40% of Lab voters said "Yes", but all Lab had to say was "SNP bad", repeat ad nauseam. SLab actually denied that the group "Labour for Indy" even existed, and their "more devo" offerings are not only less than those from the Tories, but utterly unworkable anyway. It's insult added to injury.

May will be interesting, there's a loose "Yes Alliance" (actually, there are several, t'was ever thus) with the aim of getting rid of as many Lab MPs as possible. There will be much tactical voting going on and campaigning will be focussed on their more vulnerable seats. There's a possibility that Alex will return to WM, probably from Gordon, where the sitting LibDem MP is about to retire. Solidarity's Tommy Sheridan (Marmite Man, but a powerful orator) is encouraging his supporters to vote SNP, as are the SSP (who don't stand in WM elections anyway.)

Nicola is actually more lefty than Alex, but GE isn't going to be about her anyway. Scottish politics have changed because of the indyref, and "the people" are not going to be put back in their box and shut up. Traditional voting patterns will change, and Lab certainly can't count on still having 40 MPs returned.

There's even the tiniest possibility that SNP will hold the balance of power in WM, if Lab support collapses and the English right wing vote is split between Tories and UKIP. Wouldn't that be fun?

[AgentProvocateur]

I thought my thread had died a death - glad to see it's been revived. Jim "house flip" Murphy is as about as popular as Ebola up here. He'd stab his own granny in the back if it furthered his own cause. I can't actually think of one ScotLab MSP who would be a match for Nicola Sturgeon. And apart from Sarah Boyack, has anyone else thrown their hat in the ring? It would be a real poison chalice - the chances are the SNP will get a majority in the 2016 Holyrood elections, and if that happens, there will probably be pressure (from London labour?) to get rid of that leader.

[OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub]

Having just seen Ms Boyack on Scotland Tonight (on +1), she does not fill my heart with hope - but I'm not a party member, so that's largely irrelevant. They're still chatting about Jim Murphy, I still think he'd be a disaster. I haven't voted Labour since Tony took over, he always looked slimey to me, but I would like to see the party reform and discover it's roots and purpose.

Looks like it's not going to happen. Not sure if I'm happy about that - there's a vengeful part of me that would take pleasure in seeing Labour reduced to Tory numbers in Scotland - or sad that a once-great party has been reduced to this shambles by careerism and personal greed.

[claig]

"They're still chatting about Jim Murphy, I still think he'd be a disaster."

It will be a disaster if he doesn't get it because then he might be on our TV screens down south more. His voice is ... well. I hope Scottish Labour do us a favour, vote him in, keep him off our screens.

[Isitmebut]

OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub .. re a few of your points.

On the 'in bed with the Tories on the indyref',

I have no cares for Labour anywhere, or want to get back into it, but economically/currency etc etc independence may have been good for the heart, but it wouldn't have worked for the prosperity Scottish people, despite the nationalist CLAIMS that "Scotland is one of the richest country on Earth" - so Scottish history, one day, may be kinder to the Labour Party. IMHO.


Re "There's even the tiniest possibility that SNP will hold the balance of power in WM, if Lab support collapses and the English right wing vote is split between Tories and UKIP. Wouldn't that be fun?"

I am totally convinced that thanks to the Conservative/UKIP split vote, Labour will form the next UK MINORITY party government in 2015 and have a loose left wing party alliance of SNP, Lib Dems, SDP, Plaid Cmy, the Greens - looking to get different parties to support different policies - and every which way, England will get stuffed by Labour's policies/incompetence/agendas.

[OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub]

Isitme, history may be kinder to Slab re indyref. But history won't be forming the Scottish electorate in a few short months. Slab not only got into bed with the Tories, they called their own voters (and 45% of an 83% turnout) rabid, Nazis, a virus, vandals, intimidatory thugs... It'll be one hell of a love-in to turn that around by May, especially as there will be active campaigns against them, reminding people.

I have no idea what WM will look like after the GE, but it'll be interesting to find out.

[OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub]

And I see Neil Findlay is indeed up for it.