Labour 1997 - 2010, was the worst government ever

[Wellwobbly]

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100240679/exclusive-labour-1997-2010-was-the-worst-government-ever-and-this-is-why/

[Wellwobbly]

And:

www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9034331/has-there-been-another-government-in-british-history-where-everyone-hated-each-other-more-than-under-blair/

[MrJudgeyPants]

I don't think that history has finished judging New Labour yet. So many of their fuck ups will have such long term ramifications for this country that unborn generations will be cursing Blair and Brown for a long time yet.

[Wannabestepfordwife]

I wouldn't say they were the worst government ever I think the third reichs got that covered.

However I think they were a horrendous government and I don't think I could ever vote labour

[SirChenjin]

I voted for them. I remember being absolutely convinced that they were going to change society for the better. I was utterly, utterly wrong - they destroyed this country.

[niceguy2]

Nah, they weren't the worst by a long shot. What about James Callghan's government who presided over the winter of discontent?

His Tonyness wasn't all bad. Many of his policies were just misguided. New Labour tended to just throw money at the problem and think that would fix it. Of course it doesn't.

The biggest long term problems we face such as sovereign debt and the pension timebomb have been there for a lot longer than before New Labour came to power. Each government just kicks the hard decisions into the long grass and hope someone else will end up having to deal with it.

They were pretty shite though to have inherited a balanced budget and left with a humongous deficit.

[SirChenjin]

Yep, JC's Government was up there (down there?) with the very worst. From a longevity point of view though, TB still has it imo.

[Wellwobbly]

I agree with you there Niceguy - His Tonyness wasn't all bad. Many of his policies were just misguided. - Tony Blair got that public services needed reforming. He just got totally stitched up by his lunatic Chancellor.

This was a time where TB really should have listened to his wife. He should have sacked that unprintable chap.

But here is the problem NG: why on the left, are catastrophic policies merely 'misguided', like, you know, all the over 100 millions killed by those misguided policies of Stalin and Mao, whereas on the right it is caused by downright evil?

[ohmymimi]

Slightly off point, but there are Americans who believe Hitler was a Leftie because he was a National Socialist.

[MrJudgeyPants]

Ohmymimi there are plenty of Brits who believe that too. Many are of the opinion that National Socialism and International Socialism are just different ends of the same turd.

[Wellwobbly]

I started rebutting you both, and then stopped and thought a bit - actually, these two are right.

National Socialism is a fascist movement. The apartheid government was National socialism.

If any of you are interested in why Africa goes wrong, can I direct you to a book by Moeletsi Mbeki (brother of President Mbeki, an economist) called 'Architects of Poverty'.

He describes the history of South Africa as a struggle between two nationalist movements: Afrikaner nationalism, and African nationalism. His conclusion? African nationalism is WORSE economically for South Africa than apartheid was! This fascinating book explains why.

The ANC are rather cross with him as a result.

The other essay I found absolutely fascinating is by Alice Miller: Adolf Hitler - From Hidden to Manifest Horror.

I urge anyone who wants to understand WHY? to read this. Adolf Hitler had the most horrific childhood. Horrific. And he was a clever, sensitive little boy. Who used those talents to take an entire continent to destruction to project and ward off his inner trauma.

PS Saddam Hussein, Josef Stalin and Osama bin Laden - similar childhoods. The cost of child abuse is huge.

[ohmymimi]

Thank you for the information about the Mbeki and Miller books, I'm off to track them down.

[ttosca]

I urge anyone who wants to understand WHY? to read this. Adolf Hitler had the most horrific childhood. Horrific. And he was a clever, sensitive little boy. Who used those talents to take an entire continent to destruction to project and ward off his inner trauma.

Really? I didn't know this. What's your source? Can you recommend a book?

[chibi]

it is incredible to lay the blame for nazism and all its horrors on one man's unhappy childhood

i was not there, but it seemed to me that there were quite a few enthusiastic fascists about in the 30s and 40s- please do not exonerate or whitewash their role because Hitler's dad was mean or whatever

[ttosca]

chibi-

Please don't confusing understanding with justifying. One can understand what contributed to X without justifying X. Understanding something does not automatically exonerate someone from all personal responsibility, either.

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Miller on how we create evil.

[CreatureRetorts]

[CreatureRetorts]

Do you honestly take the rantings of this man seriously? Seriously?

Man alive.

[BechuanaGirl]

Worst governments (imho):

Roman Republic
Stalin's USSR
Mao's PRC
Third Reich
Kimmy State of Korea
Clement Atlee and Labour
Labour '97 to 2010
Saudi Arabia
Iran 1978-2013 (pre Rouhani)
Sudan 1989-present

Blair barely made seventh, but yeah, it was a pretty awful decade and a bit.

[ohtanmybum]

Put the sherry down, Bechuana, you've put Lab 97-2010 after Stalin and Mao, who could possibly take you list seriously?

[BechuanaGirl]

ohtanmybum Haha, define worst maybe? Mao and Stalin destroyed their countries but set them on an unstoppable course for redevelopment under Deng and Khrushchev respectively, but Lab 97-2010 destroyed their countries and forced into power some well-meaning, intelligent but universally hated (for some reason) Eton boys and some useless children in power...it's all opinion!


Personally I want the empire back, but new and improved (and I'm allowed to say this because I'm from a (ex)colony!)

[MrsWembley]

Can I come in and hide here? I didn't think threads like this were allowed on MN...

[NigellasDealer]

Adolf Hitler had the most horrific childhood. Horrific. And he was a clever, sensitive little boy. Who used those talents to take an entire continent to destruction to project and ward off his inner trauma
oh please.....does anyone really believe that an ugly little failed art student and jailbird suddenly became chancellor of germany through his own strengths and talents? that he didn't have extremely powerful backers?

[ProfondoRosso]

Purely coming from personal perspective here, but a good few people in former mining communities in Scotland who had the poll tax rolled out when they were at their most desperate might beg to differ.

[caroldecker]

profondo the miners plight was purely the fault of the miners, the strike was illegal and the community charge was a fair way of spreading the cost of local services, although the implementation may have left things to be desired

[Oblomov]

Blimey. This had gone a bit off track. Yes I believe Blair did alot of damage. Yes I think he has a lot to answer for. We were taken in by him. By god, what a mistake!