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Is autogenocide actually happening here before our eyes?! How can we prevent it?

(18 Posts)
AuLaitAuLait Wed 12-Dec-12 20:52:47

read a shocking blog today, left me reeling. It's here - (on PhOne so link might not work)
if this is what's happening in the uk too, how can we stop it? I'm writing to my mp for the difference it will make.

AMumInScotland Wed 12-Dec-12 20:59:56

I don't particularly want to open a blog with that title - how about you summarise what it is you are concerned about so we can decide whether or not to follow your link?

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 12-Dec-12 21:06:13

Link doesn't work anyway.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 12-Dec-12 21:09:22

Link that does work. A brief glance suggests that in hard times, people die. And it's not so well-written that I want to read much more.

AuLaitAuLait Wed 12-Dec-12 21:27:04

Apologies, it's about government allegedly deliberately targeting certain groups of people who are not useful to them, for removal, but done in a hidden way - eg demonising a group, media reporting group negatively, people in general believing it (eg that people on incapacity benefit are not incapacitated at all but prefer to live on perceived as generous benefits), those in power isolating said group and removing their quality of life (in my example, by subjecting them to assessments that find some fit to work who are not?) and shortening their life expectancy by increased stress, depression, maybe cold if they can no longer afford to keep warm, so the deaths are "hidden"

AMumInScotland Wed 12-Dec-12 21:37:38

I doubt it. They demonise people to take our attention away from the real reasons why we're up to our necks in financial shit, but I doubt they plan far enough ahead to hope people die of it. Most politicians may be self-serving bastards but they aren't cynical enough for that.

Besides, in the UK the NHS bears a lot of the costs of stress and depression and the general ill-health that low income brings with it, so unless you fixed it so tey dies off quickly and with low cost to the NHS then it wouldn't be very effective, would it?

CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts Thu 13-Dec-12 07:33:10

They may be able to do that in the USA where the health system is very poor for those who are jobless or on low incomes etc. but as AMumInScotland rightly says, the UK's universal access health service means that anyone who is ill can expect treatment. Life expectancy in the UK has been steadily rising so if there is any social engineering going on, it's largely beneficial. BTW Anyone can potentially suffer from stress or depression & it is not limited to people on low incomes or those with pre-existing conditions.

AuLaitAuLait Thu 13-Dec-12 09:43:38

Thanks for the working link OLKN.

If we go down the same route as the US, with everyone needing health insurance though, it could happen here couldn't it?

I'm a bit of a knee jerk reactionist, it's good to hear reasonableness so thank you AMIS & COCNMS

AMumInScotland Thu 13-Dec-12 10:50:01

I don't believe it is being deliberately done in the US either - I just don't think that it needs organised conspiracies to make the world the mess it is now, just the normal short-sighted, selfish, short-term thinking that most people have as their default is plenty to do it without anyone having to plan ahead in that kind of way.

Besides what would be the "point" of killing off people just because they are poor or disabled? If you have the position of the US where they don't "waste" much money on looking after those people, then why bother to put effort into killing them? The costs - both in terms of actual effort and the terrible fallout if they got found out in their conspiracy - would be high, and the benefits they would get from it low.

I find it far easier to believe that these things are just consequences of the decisions that politicians make for other reasons. They may not care if a few people die as a result, but they generally kid themselves that they are working for the good of society as a whole and that any negative effects are just "collateral damage".

flatpackhamster Thu 13-Dec-12 11:34:26

Why on earth are you reading that crap? It's a ridiculous premise.

CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts Thu 13-Dec-12 13:18:55

"If we go down the same route as the US, with everyone needing health insurance though, it could happen here couldn't it?"

There is no suggestion at the moment that we are getting health insurance. Although, in places like France, Belgium and the Netherlands where there are excellent social health-care systems arguable better than the NHS, they operate a model of universalinsurance and reimbursement that works far better than anything in the US.

claig Thu 13-Dec-12 14:32:23

'Why on earth are you reading that crap?'

Excuses, new to thread, just trying to catch up. What are we talking about? The Guardian newspaper?

MiniTheMinx Thu 13-Dec-12 19:42:15

OP have you read Naomi Wolf's book The End of America, where she writes about the ten things that democracies do to close down a free society. She compares what is happening in America now with what happened in Chille and Germany. interview with her about the book.

Politicians in nation states are powerless and democracy is an illusion because so much power has now passed to big corporations via chairmen of financial institutions (IFM, World Bank, OECD, issuing banks) The only purpose of governments within nation states is to perpetuate the idea of democracy. Obama hasn't closed down Gauntanamo, instead he has enacted more laws that people barely understand but basically give the state carte blanche to lock anyone up without trial.

Capitalism creates an ever increasing sludge of "useless eaters" thrown onto the pile, unable to find work, unable to live without state subsidy. Neo-liberalisation and the failure of states to stand up to corporations means that the state collects ever less in tax, as small businesses are squeezed out, as corporations find ways of socialising costs and maximising profits, the state is becoming impotent. It can only shrink, and as it does so, many people will suffer. As desperate people realise and act, the state must be ready to impose martial law, and America is ready for just that eventuality. I would add I think the UK government probably have similar contingency plans.

What is amazing is that so many people still equate free markets with free people.

grimbletart Thu 13-Dec-12 21:06:54

14 posts and no one has said Bilderberg conspiracy yet.....

MiniTheMinx Fri 14-Dec-12 10:39:23

Grimble you just have wink

grimbletart Fri 14-Dec-12 14:45:32


Now't like a good conspiracy theory.....

MiniTheMinx Fri 14-Dec-12 17:16:15

I bet the food and the golf is good !

Solopower1 Fri 14-Dec-12 23:07:06

Brilliant post, MiniTheMinx! You have said exactly what I have been thinking, vaguely, for a while - but your post is so clear and succinct.

And thanks for the link. I don't think I had heard of Naomi Wolf. Compelling stuff.

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