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Why aren't you all FURIOUS?!

(138 Posts)
NewNames Fri 05-Oct-12 23:08:06

And you thought the minister for women and equality was bad... Our HEALTH MINISTER wants to reduce the abortion time limit to 12 weeks!!!!

Front page of tomorrow's Times.

blonderthanred Sat 06-Oct-12 10:36:29

I'm furious.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Sat 06-Oct-12 10:36:51

What ones are caused by a disabled child newnames

Zara1984 Sat 06-Oct-12 10:37:20

Slutty Her option aside from aborting was, in all likelihood, to be homeless and pregnant. And given how much she was drinking, that poor baby could well have also been affected by FAS. What a great start in life, I'm sure s/he would've had no problem finding adoptive parents. And we all know that being homeless and pregnant would be a walk in the park, right???

I gave details of the conception to give a wider background of how awful the situation was for her.

I would love for you to have looked my friend in the eye, after hearing her story (after the fact of it happening, because she had isolated herself from friends & family at the time), and told her she shouldn't have aborted. I would seriously like to see if anyone anti-choice would have the balls to tell her that her choice was wrong.

CakeBump Sat 06-Oct-12 10:37:52

Yes, I am OP. But there should be a cut off limit, and if a foetus can survive at 24 weeks, then that limit is too late.

My opinion remains the same whether for disabled or non disabled babies, btw

swallowedAfly Sat 06-Oct-12 10:44:29

for those saying 12 weeks is long enough:

my cycle can be 52 days long. it is quite possible therefore that i would not even be late till i was 8 weeks pregnant and quite reasonable to wait a week to see if your period comes. therefore 9weeks at the point i find out. i can't be the only one with long cycles.

that leaves 3 weeks to get a gp appointment, be seen, be referred and get an appointment and have the abortion.

that is not plenty of time.

MadBusLady Sat 06-Oct-12 10:45:27

Sorry if anyone's already said this, not read whole thread.

I think it's a stalking horse for a lesser reduction, that more people will accept as "not so bad". You've got to have the nutters like Hunt (and that ghastly Dorries woman) to make people who want, say, a reduction to 20 weeks appear moderates.

Sluttybuttons Sat 06-Oct-12 10:45:31

Orange, i believe disabled children have the right to not be aborted either. However if there was no chance whatsoever that the baby would live and the mother could die then that is (in my opinion) the only time abortion should be an option. I know my opinion is not popular but getting pregnant is a result of having sex and nothing other than abstinence is 100%. So if you have sex then there is a chance you could get pregnant.

threesocksmorgan Sat 06-Oct-12 10:46:11

come on newnames back that up please with fact

swallowedAfly Sat 06-Oct-12 10:49:27

i recently had a really interesting conversation with a gp who used to work in an abortion clinic. what surprised her most were the women who had unintentionally gotten pregnant whilst married/cohabiting with a man and their shared child/ren only to tell him and have him completely scarper off the scene leaving her facing single parenthood, financial implications, caring for existing children and trying to explain daddy's disappearance, as well as being pregnant and having to decide what to do in light of his disappearance and all the new and extra stress upon her.

she said this happened so frequently and it was what had stunned her the most of all the stories she heard - stunned that it was so common.

so this woman's husband has buggered off when she's 11 weeks pregnant and her world has totally turned upside down, the wellbeing of her existing children is in question as it is let alone if another baby comes along and you'd want her to work out what the hell to do, make the decision, see the doctor and get an appointment, arrange childcare and time off work and have an abortion in a week?

i sometimes think people lack imagination let alone empathy.

swallowedAfly Sat 06-Oct-12 10:50:41

slutty by that rational you should never, ever have sex unless you want a child. i look forward with hearing how it goes when you tell your husband about this.

NewNames Sat 06-Oct-12 10:51:03

Just Google 'death in childbirth'!

Women should not be forced to continue a pregnancy they don't want full stop!

Sluttybuttons Sat 06-Oct-12 10:53:09

Zara I was dealing with my own issues and had a 1 night stand with a man who i had met for about an hour. I now have 2 year old twins. I have a friend who was raped at 16 and she now has a 16 year old daughter. She chose to seek help to get rid of the baby but not to sort herself out. That was her choice and yes her choice was wrong

needanswers Sat 06-Oct-12 10:54:25

Newnames, but that doesnt explain why aborting a full term baby prevents those risks, the baby still has to be birthed.

SirBoobAlot Sat 06-Oct-12 10:59:20

Newnames but a full term aborted baby would still have to be delivered.

I don't understand the point you are making.

There are always risks in childbirth - you can't avoid that fact.

kdiddy Sat 06-Oct-12 10:59:22

I'm not furious, because it's his opinion, and he is perfectly entitled to it. If I got angry with everyone who I disagreed with it would be a phenomenal waste of my energy.

I don't share his view but I am glad I live in a country where it's acceptable for people to differ in their beliefs and voice them.

I would be furious with any policy that enacted his view - but that's not what has happened here.

SirBoobAlot Sat 06-Oct-12 11:01:51

Buttons, you are massively over simplifying. I was pregnant at 17, disabled and in a very volatile relationship. I continued with my pregnancy, because it was the right choice for me. Doesn't mean it would have been the right choice for everyone.

blonderthanred Sat 06-Oct-12 11:05:35

Those who are saying it's his private opinion, he wasn't being interviewed as Jeremy Hunt, Private Citizen; he was being interviewed as Jeremy Hunt, Health Secretary.

Tuttutitlookslikerain Sat 06-Oct-12 11:08:25

It says at the bottom of the article "he stressed the government had no plans to change the law".

Theresa May said there were no proposals to change the law!

I think 12 weeks is too low, but 24 weeks is too high. However, I do wish people would read articles and listen to the news before scaremongering!

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Sat 06-Oct-12 11:12:01

I just googled it. There was no mention of fetal disability in causes of death.
Bungled abortions featured quite heavily sad

I am pro choice newnames so do not misunderstand me.

I am asking that people examine their attitudes towards disability before asking 'except disability' on the end of their pro choice statements

Tuttutitlookslikerain Sat 06-Oct-12 11:14:58

91% of all abortions in 2011 were carried out before 13 weeks, so perhaps the limit could be lowered.

BoffinMum Sat 06-Oct-12 11:16:09

I am completely furious, I tell you. There's no scientific basis whatsoever for their bungled assertions.

piprabbit Sat 06-Oct-12 11:19:09

I am very, very shocked that the health minister is making this sort of statement (and yes, I realise it is his personal belief not a govt. policy) not based on the science, the way outcomes have improved for the most premature babies etc. etc. but because he "thinks" that a baby's life starts at 12 weeks.
Not 11 weeks 6 days, not 12 weeks 1 day but like a magic light switch at 12 weeks exactly.

BoffinMum Sat 06-Oct-12 11:19:25

Pretty balanced article here

BoffinMum Sat 06-Oct-12 11:22:15

We would save many more babies if we concentrated our efforts on reducing infectious disease rates amongst pregnant women during the first trimester. Every year, gynae wards are full of pregnant women arduously losing their babies in the aftermath of having flu in early pregnancy, for example. But addressing that wouldn't give many opportunities for moral posturing, would it now?

madmouse Sat 06-Oct-12 11:24:34

disabilities aside sluttybuttons?? What a disgusting comment.

My ds is perfect, clever, loved and absolutely wonderful. He also has cerebral palsy.

Look at my profile, I know the pics are out of date, ds is 4 now.

But many parents to be would have chosen to abort him if they at 20 weeks got the prognosis we got in NICU when he was 5 days old (cp, blindness, epilepsy, specific learning difficulties). Now here is the rub - even though the very good doctors had my baby right in front of them and did all the clever scans and tests they still got it wrong. He sees, he has no epilepsy, he has no learning difficulties.

A baby is a gift, and not one to be rejected if not '''''''''perfect'''''''''

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