Elderly people's deaths in Britain since the 80's.

[ivanhoe]

Although excess winter mortality is associated with low temperatures, conditions directly relating to cold, such as hypothermia, are not the main cause of excess winter mortality. The majority of additional winter deaths are caused by cerebrovascular diseases, ischaemic heart disease and respiratory diseases.
Excess winter mortality in England and Wales, 1986/86 to 2009/10
Winter Excess winter deaths Deaths per day Deaths per hour

1986/1987 26,370 220 9
1987/1988 32,970 275 11
1988/1989 21,160 176 7
1989/1990 47,200 393 16
1990/1991 37,940 316 13
1991/1992 34,850 290 12
1992/1993 25,650 214 9
1993/1994 25,900 216 9
1994/1995 27,290 227 9
1995/1996 40,190 335 14
1996/1997 47,690 397 17
1997/1998 22,900 191 8
1998/1999 46,840 390 16
1999/2000 48,440 404 17
2000/2001 24,840 207 9
2001/2002 27,230 227 9
2002/2003 23,970 200 8
2003/2004 23,450 195 8
2004/2005 31,640 264 11
2005/2006 25,270 211 9
2006/2007 23,740 198 8
2007/2008 24,690 206 9
2008/2009 36,450 304 13
2009/2010 25,400 212 9
Source: Office for National Statistics

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

And your point is?.....

[AMumInScotland]

Yes, additional elderly people die every winter. Is that something to do with politics? I think you could graph it alongside average temperatures better than against which party was in government at the time.

[headfairy]

bald figures aren't much of an argument for anything really.

[WhollyGhost]

we're all going to die at some point

the lucky ones get to stick around till they're elderly and then enjoy one last summer

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

[meditrina]

Yes, more people die in the winter. Whether you see this as excess depends on whether you see the summer or the winter rate as "normal".

There would still be something of a winter spike given that cool damp conditions are just right for viruses. What is shocking is when there are deaths attributable to avoidable causes: the winter payment has alleviated fuel poverty though not eradicated it, and premature deaths occur all year round owing to inadequate care and nutrition in nursing homes (though it is hard to get a definitive picture on the extent of this).

[ivanhoe]

Typical responses from hard nosed callous British people.

We are a nation that frowns on sentimentality and human decency.

[SanctiMoanyArse]

Has always been teh case/ Am assuming you are making a point about hte poverty many vulnerable people across the board are finding themselves in and that this is making them unable to us eheating, but certainly in the nineties when i worked with older people both in resi homes and the community we all knew they ent with the first and last frosts.

We will all die: it's a crying shame that some people die because fo a lack of heratinga dn warmth absolutely but we will die and whilst if you argue that people should not be in that situation I will agree, the figures themselves show nothing much.

[headfairy]

Ivanhoe, you don't know me from your elbow. I was merely stating a fact about statistics.

[GlaikitFizzog]

Riiiighhtt!

Flus and colds a more prevelant in winter than in summer. Elderly people are more likely to suffer complications of getting a bad cold or flu. In winter there we are in closer contact with people at gatherings (Christmas, New Year) making the passing of infections much easier.

What do you suggest we, as a nation do to stop this happening? It is tragic that people die, but people die all year round. I've lost 3 family members since March this year. That would show in statistics that it's not a good thing to be related to me at the moment. But there is nothing we can do about it.

[ivanhoe]

What a no- nothing bunch of wallies. Your lack of insight and knowledge could fill Buckingham palace.

Typically bloody British attitudes.

[headfairy]

I'm a big fan of the extended family. That's what my folk do where we come from. Quite often they add another storey to their house to provide accomodation to a newly married offspring. Obviously that's not practical, but when my parents get too old to look after themselves I fully intend to buy a house large enough to allow them to live with us. We'll pool resources and get a house big enough for all of us. I think more of that should happen. I've never understood the British way of families not sticking together. My dh thinks I'm odd because I consider my first cousins close family. He doesn't even know his uncle's name.

[headfairy]

Ivanhoe, I'm assuming you're not British. I'm a British national but from a latin/South American background. We do things differently there.

[iklboo]

But what has this to do with politics?

[GlaikitFizzog]

But Ivanhoe, you've not presented an arguement. Just a list of stats. If you want a debate, give us something to debate. Or perhaps you just want to sling insults at us and toprove you are "right" about us Brits.

[SanctiMoanyArse]

HF maybe that's just impossible for most people given property prices these days? technically I;d be happy to look after my aprents (or IL though he married a much youngr lady; not MIL though, DH would walk if I suggested it: ah divorced inlaws, fab!)

But I can't becuase we have no space and we rent and we already have disabled kids to care for and I couldn't

Thankfully my sister has space and has said she would provide care although mother says she would rather not be dependent thank you all the same.

Famillies eh?

And this is in politics becuase Ivanhoe's point is always the same: that we should raise pensions. Perhaps, but we should raise carer's allowance as well and I have given up on that one in this financial climate. Do I deserve more than £50 pw? yes. Do most pensioners deserve more than pension? yes. can the country afford it? nope.

[headfairy]

Sancti, I know there are people for whom that isn't an option, currently it's not for us either, but by pooling resources we can manage it. If I couldn't then my sister would have done it. We've both been quite shocked at the standard of care for the elderly when my mum was looking for somewhere for my grandmother (before anyone asks, she's 92, blind and very very frail. My parents house is really old and has steep stairs she can't get up. They tried to sell it years ago to buy somewhere for all of them but couldn't get enough together to buy a property sufficiently large. My grandmother is now too old and needs 24 hour medical care. If this hadn't been the case my mum would have her living in her house. She goes to see her every day and I'm sure for her peace of mind having her in her own home would be far more preferable)

[headfairy]

sadly, I think a lot of the problems currently experienced by the elderly are because they are at a junction point where the state system cannot support people to acceptible standards. Unfortunately those people thought it could when they were of working age. 50-60 years ago we thought the NHS and the state could support everyone. I don't know about anyone else here but I think our generation need to seriously think long and hard about our old age and plan for that more than anything. I'm doing everything I can to top up my pension. We cannot rely on the state to take care of us no matter how much tax we pay. There are just too many of us now, living much much longer.

[CaptainNancy]

so deaths of elderly people in winter have been largely similar for the last 30 years. What point is it you wish to make about this?

[SanctiMoanyArse]

Mum cares for Grandad too; she can't have him living there (without a divorce anyway- you'd have to knwo Grandad to udnerstand, he ahtes dad) but she goes to him when she can.

I agree with you about much care in teh UK but not all: I;ve worked in some great aplces as wella s some bad, though many years ago now.

My friend pooled resources and bought a house with an annexe but it has not been easy; issues with council tax, losing her own income after she lost her CM registration becuase of her father's illness and being on premises: if this societyw ants carers great but I can't see how most people can afford to look after their parents when CA is £55 pw and we are in the middle of such a financial catastrophe. Only the poorest ro thei richest, as ever

[AMumInScotland]

Ivanhoe - nothing in any figures you have given say that these deaths are a result of government policy, poverty, or an uncaring attitude amongst Brits.

Old people have always died disproportionately in cold weather. That can be the result of lung problems, weak hearts, assorted infections, and knock-on effects from falls and slips.

Would you like people to neatly die in similar numbers in every month? Perhaps we shoud "cull" a few in the warmer months just to get the figures to match up nicely?

[AMumInScotland]

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/subnational-health2/excess-winter-mortality/excess-winter-mortality-in-england-and-wales--2009-10--provisional--and-2008-09--final-/excess-winter-mortality-in-england-and-wales.pdf&sa=U&ei=B5qATpjaPKag0QWXuLnCCQ&ved=0CBgQFjAB&usg=AFQjCNFVuSA-4FzYdAUbypKbaZjc7fEW4w" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Have a look at figure 2 - this shows how Excess Winter Mortality has improved since the 1950s.

Should we use this as clear evidence of how governments have been doing the right thing for elderly people over the past 50 years?

[Alouiseg]

I knew this would be you Ivanhoebot

[ivanhoe]

/////sadly, I think a lot of the problems currently experienced by the elderly are because they are at a junction point where the state system cannot support people to acceptible standards. Unfortunately those people thought it could when they were of working age. 50-60 years ago we thought the NHS and the state could support everyone. I don't know about anyone else here but I think our generation need to seriously think long and hard about our old age and plan for that more than anything. I'm doing everything I can to top up my pension. We cannot rely on the state to take care of us no matter how much tax we pay. //////There are just too many of us now, living much much longer////


I have never read so much rubbish.

Just another poor soul believing everything she or he reads and hears these days through the media.