Talk

Advanced search

Where are our revolutionaries?

(52 Posts)
kerrymumbles Mon 19-Sep-11 14:00:05

We're even more oppressed then Northern Africa\Middle East. We just don't realize it because we have been fed a steady diet of fear and despair.

Why do we submit to this?

Why does no one stand up and say No. Enough.

ButHeNeverDid Mon 19-Sep-11 14:04:10

"We're even more oppressed then Northern Africa\Middle East".

Really? How exactly?

bobthebuddha Mon 19-Sep-11 16:02:40

Well we have people like Jody Mcintyre & Jacob Bard-Rosenberg if they'll do you. Most people tend to think they're a little, shall we say, over-the-top. i'd love to hear your views on why we're more oppressed than Northern Africa\Middle East too...

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 19-Sep-11 16:06:15

Maybe you're oppressed in Ireland but here in the UK we got rid of the bunch that fed us 'fear and despair' when we voted out the warmongering, 'there there dear, leave it all to us', tax credit pushing, nanny-stateist, civil liberty-squeezing, lying toe-rag, champagne socialists with the red rosettes.

newwave Mon 19-Sep-11 17:05:49

CES

And in return we got the two faced lying Tory filth and their LD lapdogs:

No top down change to the NHS
The NHS is safe in our hands
No increase in VAT
No increase in tuition fees

The Tories, a party of the rich, for the rich and by the rich.

The Tories give you the following:

Policies that will increase homelessness
Policies that will increase child poverty
Policies that will increase hospital waiting times
Policies that will increase NHS rationing
Policies that have caused record youth unemployment which has almost reached 1 million which is the highest since the bitch Thatcher was in power.
Policies that will do nothing to control the feril bankers filths greed
Policies that will allow their "business friends" to gouge the NHS and the public purse.

The Tories who say "we are all in this together" and "the rich will be the brunt of the cuts" and then increasese VAT which hits the poor the hardest and wants to remove the 50p tax band which benifits only the well off.

Same old lying devious Tory scum.

niceguy2 Mon 19-Sep-11 17:52:54

Kerry. Really? Have you ever actually visited any of these places? I have. I've worked in quite a few and I'll take the 'oppression' in this country over the stuff I've seen over there thanks.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 19-Sep-11 17:57:03

I think the real revolutionaries when we look back at this period... ironically for those suffering from arrested political development and still think it's the eighties.... will be Ian Duncan Smith and Frank Field. If they pull off their welfare reforms successfully I think it will be as revolutionary as when the welfare state was first introduced.

bobthebuddha Mon 19-Sep-11 21:54:42

sigh...it had to descend into 'Tory scum' Vs 'champagne socialists' didn't it.

ButHeNeverDid Mon 19-Sep-11 22:03:51

And OP has not been back [Hmm]

bemybebe Mon 19-Sep-11 22:18:17

kerry, you made me chuckle
normally, there are no revolutionaries in the countries with properly functioning political systems, independent journalism and judicial process. so, I would congratulate Britain on this achievement.

newwave Mon 19-Sep-11 23:23:01

Kerry. Really? Have you ever actually visited any of these places? I have. I've worked in quite a few and I'll take the 'oppression' in this country over the stuff I've seen over there thanks.

Did you possibly visit these countries to "export" British jobs abroad as part of you "job". Pray do tell.

newwave Mon 19-Sep-11 23:25:15

"If they pull off their welfare reforms successfully I think it will be as revolutionary as when the welfare state was first introduced"

I suppose at a push destroying the welfare state could be described as "revolutionary".

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 20-Sep-11 06:23:59

The switch in purpose of the benefit system from one that traps people in poverty and reduces social mobility, to one that actively supports people as they get back into work is not 'destructive' but an intelligent and revolutionary change in thinking.

niceguy2 Tue 20-Sep-11 10:05:05

Not just British jobs Newwave but yes, i went there as part of my job.

Done anymore bids for the nasty banks you hate so much recently?

Solopower Tue 20-Sep-11 20:11:12

Where are our revolutionaries? Squabbling among ourselves. wink

Where's a pied piper when you need one, to lead us out of this crisis? Where would you want her to take us?

And anyone who was able to win the support of half of us would be hated by the others. The only place that would lead to would be civil war.

Then we really would understand what some of the Middle Eastern and African countries are going through.

Kevlarhead Tue 20-Sep-11 20:45:11

Terry Pratchett wrote "The true enemy of the revolutionary is not the capitalist, but the other revolutionary whose definition of 'revolution' differs by three words in section 94 of the revolutionaries charter".

There's yer answer.

newwave Tue 20-Sep-11 21:05:03

The switch in purpose of the benefit system from one that traps people in poverty and reduces social mobility, to one that actively supports people as they get back into work is not 'destructive' but an intelligent and revolutionary change in thinking.The switch in purpose of the benefit system from one that traps people in poverty and reduces social mobility, to one that actively supports people as they get back into work is not 'destructive' but an intelligent and revolutionary change in thinking.

Nice idea but the Tories have/will cut benefits and social services so that being on benefits is a route to squalor and abject poverty.

The other "fly in the ointment" is that there are no bloody jobs and we have Tory created rising unemployment and (congratulations to Gideon and Dave) RECORD youth unemployment (Thatcher will be proud).

Tories will never admit that they are the party of poverty for the lowest and greed for their "friends". The party of the trickle up policies, take from the poor and give to the rich. The party of mass unemployment, you Tories think we cannot remember the bitch Thatcher and her spiteful, nasty, devisive, ways, the new lot are no better just more plausible but many are now starting to see them for what they are, nasty bastards one and all.

newwave Tue 20-Sep-11 21:11:11

Not just British jobs Newwave but yes, i went there as part of my job.

Dont you ever feel just a little bit guilty or is unemployment for others a "price worth paying". Mind you Dyson did it when he moved manufacturing out of the UK to the far east and got a knighthood so you may be in for a gong as well.

Done anymore bids for the nasty banks you hate so much recently?

Not the banks as such just the greedy fucking scum at the top and no mostly refurbs of existing buildings and bringing existing systems up to current standards.

maypole1 Wed 21-Sep-11 00:18:16

Reading the guardian and writing out their shopping list for whole foods lol

niceguy2 Wed 21-Sep-11 08:23:18

But who do you hold responsible Newwave for the cuts? The people who spent the money? Or the people who are having to make cuts because there is none?

As for feeling guilty, sometimes I do yes. But in the current climate, good jobs are like rocking horse shit. And if I weren't doing it then many others would take my place. The end result is nothing would change. These decisions to move jobs are made by those on a much higher paygrade than me.

Plus as a result of my job, I've managed to travel to many countries. And during these times I've seen how hard people in other countries are willing to work. We moan about hard jobs but trust me, we're a bunch of lazy arsed spoilt rich kids compared to many I've seen around the world. Often they are queuing up to work twice as hard for half the pay. Queuing! Other countries are churning out high quality graduates, subsidising multinationals to come and set up shop and all at a much lower cost than we can ever hope to compete with.

If we want true revolutionaries then we need politicians with the bollocks to say it how it is. That unless we focus on high end manufacturing, attracting top talented immigrants to our shores, a ruthless push on better education and lower taxes we're just going to sink from a top trading nation to obscurity.

glasnost Wed 21-Sep-11 14:07:09

OP need look no further for an answer to her question than the calibre of the posts on this thread. Espeh bemybabe's ("properly functioning political systems, independent journalism and judicial process" indeed.......no YOU make me chuckle) whose haven't got a clueness knows no bounds. Not an ounce of revolutionary spirit to be found here!

BTW any of you know that the real revolutionaries (the common people) are at this moment in time occupying Wall St and being arrested for it? Interesting how the American power elite treats protesters in their own "cradle of democracy" while pretending to encourage those rebelling against tyrants actually armed and financed by themselves. At least they haven't started shooting....yet.

bemybebe Wed 21-Sep-11 18:27:29

grin if your ideal revolutionary is trotsky and robespierre - no thank you!

ttosca Wed 21-Sep-11 21:09:27

Cogito-

The switch in purpose of the benefit system from one that traps people in poverty and reduces social mobility, to one that actively supports people as they get back into work is not 'destructive' but an intelligent and revolutionary change in thinking.

Oh yes, these same changes to the benefits system where jobcentres are being closed, right? Along with other Tory policies which attack workers rights and make it easier to fire employees and harder to file for compensation. The same policies which increase job insecurity for working people everywhere.

What would a 'reformed' benefits system look like? The UK welfare system isn't that generous; it's about middle of the league for europe.

Should we turn it in to a US style system where you have 6 months to find a job on minimal welfare amounts and then you're left on your own? Because that hasn't seemed to increase social mobility in the US. At this point in history, social mobility is at its lowest point ever.

ttosca Wed 21-Sep-11 21:18:11

niceguy-

If we want true revolutionaries then we need politicians with the bollocks to say it how it is. That unless we focus on high end manufacturing, attracting top talented immigrants to our shores, a ruthless push on better education and lower taxes we're just going to sink from a top trading nation to obscurity.

What you're suggesting, and have done elsewhere, is a 'race to the bottom'. That is partially what is responsible for people's stagnating wages for the past 30 years, as well as the problem we find ourselves in now, where there is a serious lack of demand in the world economy, because money has kept funneling from labour to capital and has resulted in people no longer being able to even afford to buy the very things they make.

I agree about the importance of education, but unfortunately the Tory scum don't. They have systematically attacked Higher Education in this country and reduced educational mobility. The recent White Paper report has been criticised by University heads:

University leaders' social mobility warning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15003486

The White Paper was also strongly criticised by the British Academy, the national body for the humanities and social sciences, which warned the plans could "damage the international reputation of higher education in the UK".

The British Academy attacked an "impoverished vision of higher education" which failed to recognise the public value of universities.

There was also a warning that the funding changes focused on undergraduate courses, but showed "little regard to their impact on postgraduate study and research or on academic career progression".

ttosca Wed 21-Sep-11 21:19:23

niceguy-

But who do you hold responsible Newwave for the cuts? The people who spent the money? Or the people who are having to make cuts because there is none?

The people who make the cuts because they are neo-liberal ideologues.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now