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The fall of Mad Dog Gaddaffi

(26 Posts)
longfingernails Sun 21-Aug-11 22:29:15

God knows I hate Cameron for selling out to the EU and the Guardian classes, and I have always been sceptical of interventionism, but his call on Libya took bravery and could have been a disaster - but seems today to be a huge success for the forces of democracy and freedom in this world.

Latest rumours are that Gadaffi is dead and his evil son Saif-Il-Islam has been captured. Let's hope so.

And let's also hope that we support the new government to build up its institutions, rather than leaving it all too late a la Blair/Bush.

DinahRod Sun 21-Aug-11 22:37:58

Haven't heard those rumours LFN

The concern is always what comes after.

longfingernails Sun 21-Aug-11 22:43:01

Of course what comes after is a concern - but just a week ago the Guardian and BBC were gleefully reporting "stagnation", "civil war within civil war" after one of the rebel leaders was killed, and so on.

It is good to see that they have been comprehensively proven wrong.

As a bonus, the BBC coverage is truly atrocious. Sky News are actually travelling with the rebels as they liberate Tripoli. The BBC has a talking head in a hotel.

longfingernails Sun 21-Aug-11 22:48:53

The important thing in the aftermath is not to disband the police, mid-to-low level army, etc. Punish the Gaddafi collabarators, but keep all the infrastructure in place. That lesson has been well and truly learnt from Iraq, I hope, and William Hague is a decent Foreign Secretary who is well versed in the lessons of history.

Oh - and make sure that the Lockerbie bomber hangs.

Pan Sun 21-Aug-11 23:03:10

and those Guardian/leftie/BBC types need stringing up, and a sane, balanced sensible regime takes over, based on LFN's Proclamations.

One Mad Dog replaces another.

longfingernails Sun 21-Aug-11 23:08:03

I do hope this success doesn't go to Cameron's head. Other countries business is their own affair. Provided it doesn't affect us we shouldn't get involved.

But if we do, we should do it the way Cameron and Sarkozy have done it - supporting indigenous movements for democracy with logistics and very targeted military missions rather than trying to impose freedom at the barrel of a gun with British boots on the ground.

longfingernails Sun 21-Aug-11 23:24:19

Alex Crawford is incredibly brave. She deserves awards and kudos galore for this.

longfingernails Mon 22-Aug-11 00:09:55

Am I really the only person on the whole of MN watching these incredible pictures coming out of Green Square?

Honeydragon Mon 22-Aug-11 00:18:00

No but thanks to you I've switched to Sky , and you're right.

Honeydragon Mon 22-Aug-11 00:20:55

(I forget I have Sky in the front room btw, I normally watch freeview in the kitchen blush)

celadon Mon 22-Aug-11 00:23:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

longfingernails Mon 22-Aug-11 00:24:25

Saif Al-Islam has been handed to the International Criminal Court.

longfingernails Mon 22-Aug-11 00:25:37

celadon He was tried and convicted. If he wanted to appeal, he could have done so. He didn't.

I remember he had only days to live, according to Kenny MacKaskill. The Libyan health system is clearly far superior to the NHS.

GlaikitFizzog Mon 22-Aug-11 00:27:29

I'm watching! Alex Crawford is a lovely lady (I have met her), she has balls of steel!

Mohammed gadaffi has been "detained", is that the bald one who studied in London?

longfingernails Mon 22-Aug-11 00:27:49

There is going to be a press conference by the Libyan Transitional Council at 2am (not sure if that is British time or Libyan time).

This is clearly history in the making - I want to stay up, but need to work tomorrow sad

longfingernails Mon 22-Aug-11 00:29:35

GlaikitFizzog Really?? No, he is the dictator with the crazy hair and dodgy sunglasses - the LSE guy is his son Saif I think.

GlaikitFizzog Mon 22-Aug-11 00:30:50

Megrahi was convicted, but not as the sole bomber. His charges read something like "along with others, planted bomb on plane". There is no way he was a lone terrorist, he was the sacrifical lamb that gadaffi offered up. And the PF in scotland were preparing for an appeal. This was dropped when he applied for compassionate release, he is still a convicted man.

longfingernails Mon 22-Aug-11 00:31:16

Actually, no that is Muammar Gaddaffi - not sure who Mohammed Gaddaffi is, must be a son.

This is Colonel Gaddaffi

NotADudeExactly Mon 22-Aug-11 00:32:18

Hmm, watching this on the Beeb and on Aljazeera.

Just a question: is NATO assisting the rebel forces advance to and take Tripoli not strictly speaking questionable from a legal perspective? Thought the UN resolution only covered acts in defence of civilians?

I'm not arguing for or against it, just wondering.

celadon Mon 22-Aug-11 00:33:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

longfingernails Mon 22-Aug-11 00:37:26

NotADudeExactly There is no such thing as international law. Just the figleaf of it.

But the figleaf helps - trememdously.

Desiderata Mon 22-Aug-11 00:39:03

Well, he can't have been completely innocent, Celadon.

I mean, I was never in the frame for 9/11, for instance, because I'm an ageing barmaid who lives in Bristol.

If he was a patsy, he was a patsy who knew the patsy caller's assistant. I refuse to believe that the civilized world garners all this 'intelligence' just to finger some innocent shoemaker who made a living from Libyan goat-skin.

longfingernails Mon 22-Aug-11 00:44:01

This Transitional National Council guy on the phone sounds impressive. If he and his ilk are the people who will end up in charge at the end of all this then there is real hope for Libya.

NotADudeExactly Mon 22-Aug-11 00:48:50

Well, IME there very definitely is such as thing as international law. It can usually be safely ignored by those with enough power but is regularly employed to bring charges or declare war against those who are lacking in this particular respect.

I do not expect that Sarkozy and/or Cameron will be indicted any time soon. However, I still think that strictly speaking NATO's actions are pretty much illegal.

Wish we knew a little more about the people now taking over. From what I can tell Libya is not quite as straightforward as e.g. Egypt was in terms of loyalties etc.

longfingernails Mon 22-Aug-11 00:54:49

As long as they a) are not fundamentalists or dictators b) remember who stood with them in their time of need, I don't particularly care who they are.

Of course, sanity has not been a defining feature of most Arab governments in living memory - however, we can but hope.

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