The way the Conservatives transformed a crisis of the banks into a crisis of public spending was a stroke of political genius. This year, bankers got away with awarding themselves nearly £14bn

[Tortington]

"The way the Conservatives transformed a crisis of the banks into a crisis of public spending was a stroke of political genius. This year, bankers got away with awarding themselves nearly £14bn of bonuses with barely a word of complaint. Meanwhile, the Tories have carefully constructed the image of a public sector workforce made up of idle, pampered pen-pushers who can easily be disposed of."

Guardian link below


am also liking 't's also classic Tory divide-and-rule politics. Make low-paid call centre and supermarket workers resent nurses and firefighters, and you will destroy any potential unity on issues such as cuts, pensions and rights in the workplace.'

its ok working class people, the rich people still get richer

[noddyholder]

This government are shameless about 'the divide' they are positively feeding it.

[EggyAllenPoe]

there was/ is a crisis in public spending.

remind me what the words 'structural defecit' meant again?

[ttosca]

there was/ is a crisis in public spending.

There wasn't/isn't a crisis in public spending. There is a deficit crisis caused by financial meltdown.

remind me what the words 'structural defecit' meant again?

Structural deficit refers to annual outgoings/expenditure exceeding revenue from taxation. Before the financial meltdown, there was a 3% structural deficit - slightly above average for the E.U.

A deficit is not a crisis.

For the last 30 years, the UK has run a deficit almost every year:

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-borrowing-data#zoomed-picture

The current deficit - at 11% - was not caused by prolific public spending. It was caused by the cost of the financial meltdown, the interest of the bailout, the recession and subsequent loss of tax receipts, and the increase in welfare payments due to loss of jobs.

The so called 'deficit crisis' is entirely the fault of the financial sector, not the public sector spending.

[ironman]

Not another bash the Tories thread.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[ttosca]

Why not? They are utter scum. They have no mandate to destroy society and attack poor people like this.

[Tortington]

ttosca you're my hero

[smallandroid]

both dp and i are losing our job soon

all tories fault fact

zzzz off ironman, you;'re obviously alrigh jack

[noddyholder]

Agree with custy Ttosca that is a concise round up and well done to custy for starting this thread. The fallout from having them in power hasn't even started

[ironman]

Have ANY of you got anyother ideas to stop this deficit created by the scum which was the Labour Party. Have any of you got any constructive ways of stopping this country going bankrupt? I'm sure Tory central office would love to know! Or is it just a moan fest?
Mine would be to stop giving away billions in overseas aid! What's yours?

[smallandroid]

the 'scum' that was that labour party??

hides thread

[ttosca]

Have ANY of you got anyother ideas to stop this deficit created by the scum which was the Labour Party. Have any of you got any constructive ways of stopping this country going bankrupt? I'm sure Tory central office would love to know! Or is it just a moan fest?

Perhaps you didn't read my recent post. Deficit crisis wasn't caused by 'profligate' public spending. It was caused by the financial meltdown.

Many Western economies have been suffering a similar deficit since the recent financial crisis. Are they also the fault of New Labour?

[Tortington]

christ ironman - can you not read? the deficit explained below

the cause explained below

and on the last thread where i think it was Ttosca who said something along the lines of how the global economic crisis could give you a clue

[Riveninside]

Remind me why we can spend 3 million a day attacking Libya for no apparent reason but are closing CAB, surestart, cutting respite, carers, nusrses, police etc

[Tortington]

that'll be because the public sector caused the war on libya.

don't forget that they are fucking with your council tax now too

[HarrietJones]

Wasn't it a teacher & a social worker starting a fight with Libya and forcing the Gov to back them by a nurse holding a gun to DCs head?

[midnightexpress]

Hurrah for ttosca. Bloody good post.

[TartyDoris]

Remind me why we can spend 3 million a day attacking Libya for no apparent reason but are closing CAB, surestart, cutting respite, carers, nusrses, police etc
Wars end. Public spending just increases year on year unless someone puts a stop to it.

Labour increased public spending from 300 billion a year to 700 billion a year. I don't think things got that much better. It's clear that cuts can be made and do need to be made. I don't know anyone that isn't ideologically anti-Tory that disagrees.

[noddyholder]

No one doubts cuts need to be made but the rate at which they are being made is inhuman unless you are loaded!

[midnightexpress]

Don't see the Afghan war or indeed the Libyan one ending any time soon. I wonder how much we have spent to date in Afghanistan?

[Solopower]

Thank you for the link, Custardo, and Ttosca for the explanations. There is so much that simply doesn't add up in the messages that come out of Tory Party HQ.

I am sure you (and Owen Jones of the Guardian) are right about the causes of the deficit. But what is your solution?

[Solopower]

The article also addresses two other things that have been puzzling me: What exactly do people mean when they talk about productivity wrt health and education? Surely the only way to increase productivity in a hospital is to save more lives (not more money)?

As the article says: 'In any case, the government's talk of driving up productivity in the public sector is fraught with problems. It's not like making cars or TVs: it's impossible to put a monetary value on everything that our public services do. If spending on cancer treatment went up by 10% and cancer deaths subsequently went down by 5%, that might not score well for productivity ? but would we really see it as a failure?'

The other thing is I have been wondering why the government is so against the public sector. Jones explains it - they want to privatise education and health services:

'But bashing public sector workers has clear political dividends for the Tories. Last month, Cameron pledged to open public services to private companies. ... Portraying public sector workers as inefficient layabouts helps build the case for privatisation. And yet it's dogma triumphing over the facts: studies suggest contracting out services actually hits productivity.

It's also classic Tory divide-and-rule politics. Make low-paid call centre and supermarket workers resent nurses and firefighters, and you will destroy any potential unity on issues such as cuts, pensions and rights in the workplace.

What sort of society demonises people who work in schools and hospitals, put out fires or collect rubbish?'

Very sad.

[Tortington]

well indeed solo.

it's all about privatisation so that rich people who are in the know get a lot of money and the standard of services go down

that's ok though becuase poor people don't vote.

[wordfactory]

noddyholder see you say everyone agrees..but actually they don't.
There are several posters on here who don't agree...or if they do they never ever come up with anything that they will safely agree can be cut.

We can all say til the cows come home that the deficit was caused by x, y or z. It actually doesn't matter. The reality is that we have to deal with the deficit or our repayments on borrowing will become too expensive.

I think people need to come up with credible alternatives to deal with the deficit, then the public won't turn on the public sector.

I also think that those who refute every cut ought to make it very clear that they want tax hikes. Then at least the choice is clear and honest.

[crazynanna]

Totally agree with the divide and rule idealogy.

I am just bowled over it is taking so long for the electorate to twig.

[edam]

Great posts, Custy and ttosca.

Yet you still get people foaming at the mouth about 'benefits cheats' as if people who have lost their jobs in the middle of a recession are the ones who caused it in the first place.

Are people really forgetful or something? We haven't had the kind of dramatic reforms that you would expect as the natural and sensible consequence of the world's economy being brought to its knees by the financiers and their slavish followers in politics.

And you still get the media and politicians treating the ratings agencies as Gods, when none of the buggers saw the crash coming.