Talk

Advanced search

The way the Conservatives transformed a crisis of the banks into a crisis of public spending was a stroke of political genius. This year, bankers got away with awarding themselves nearly £14bn

(148 Posts)
Tortington Wed 03-Aug-11 18:06:50

"The way the Conservatives transformed a crisis of the banks into a crisis of public spending was a stroke of political genius. This year, bankers got away with awarding themselves nearly £14bn of bonuses with barely a word of complaint. Meanwhile, the Tories have carefully constructed the image of a public sector workforce made up of idle, pampered pen-pushers who can easily be disposed of."

Guardian link below

am also liking 't's also classic Tory divide-and-rule politics. Make low-paid call centre and supermarket workers resent nurses and firefighters, and you will destroy any potential unity on issues such as cuts, pensions and rights in the workplace.'

its ok working class people, the rich people still get richer

noddyholder Wed 03-Aug-11 18:10:48

This government are shameless about 'the divide' they are positively feeding it.angry

EggyAllenPoe Wed 03-Aug-11 18:11:00

there was/ is a crisis in public spending.

remind me what the words 'structural defecit' meant again?

ttosca Wed 03-Aug-11 18:29:19

there was/ is a crisis in public spending.

There wasn't/isn't a crisis in public spending. There is a deficit crisis caused by financial meltdown.

remind me what the words 'structural defecit' meant again?

Structural deficit refers to annual outgoings/expenditure exceeding revenue from taxation. Before the financial meltdown, there was a 3% structural deficit - slightly above average for the E.U.

A deficit is not a crisis.

For the last 30 years, ^the UK has run a deficit almost every year^:

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-borrowing-data#zoomed-picture

The current deficit - at 11% - was not caused by prolific public spending. It was caused by the cost of the financial meltdown, the interest of the bailout, the recession and subsequent loss of tax receipts, and the increase in welfare payments due to loss of jobs.

The so called 'deficit crisis' is entirely the fault of the financial sector, not the public sector spending.

ironman Wed 03-Aug-11 18:32:38

Not another bash the Tories thread.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ttosca Wed 03-Aug-11 18:38:20

Why not? They are utter scum. They have no mandate to destroy society and attack poor people like this.

Tortington Wed 03-Aug-11 18:38:30

ttosca you're my hero

smallandroid Wed 03-Aug-11 18:40:52

both dp and i are losing our job soon

all tories fault fact

zzzz off ironman, you;'re obviously alrigh jack

noddyholder Wed 03-Aug-11 18:41:14

Agree with custy Ttosca that is a concise round up and well done to custy for starting this thread. The fallout from having them in power hasn't even started

ironman Wed 03-Aug-11 18:47:21

Have ANY of you got anyother ideas to stop this deficit created by the scum which was the Labour Party. Have any of you got any constructive ways of stopping this country going bankrupt? I'm sure Tory central office would love to know! Or is it just a moan fest?
Mine would be to stop giving away billions in overseas aid! What's yours?

smallandroid Wed 03-Aug-11 18:51:55

the 'scum' that was that labour party?? hmm

hides thread

ttosca Wed 03-Aug-11 18:56:50

Have ANY of you got anyother ideas to stop this deficit created by the scum which was the Labour Party. Have any of you got any constructive ways of stopping this country going bankrupt? I'm sure Tory central office would love to know! Or is it just a moan fest?

Perhaps you didn't read my recent post. Deficit crisis wasn't caused by 'profligate' public spending. It was caused by the financial meltdown.

Many Western economies have been suffering a similar deficit since the recent financial crisis. Are they also the fault of New Labour?

Tortington Wed 03-Aug-11 18:57:31

christ ironman - can you not read? the deficit explained below

the cause explained below

and on the last thread where i think it was Ttosca who said something along the lines of how the global economic crisis could give you a clue

Riveninside Wed 03-Aug-11 18:57:37

Remind me why we can spend 3 million a day attacking Libya for no apparent reason but are closing CAB, surestart, cutting respite, carers, nusrses, police etc

Tortington Wed 03-Aug-11 19:09:29

that'll be because the public sector caused the war on libya.

don't forget that they are fucking with your council tax now too

HarrietJones Wed 03-Aug-11 19:12:25

Wasn't it a teacher & a social worker starting a fight with Libya and forcing the Gov to back them by a nurse holding a gun to DCs head?

midnightexpress Wed 03-Aug-11 19:13:34

Hurrah for ttosca. Bloody good post.

TartyDoris Wed 03-Aug-11 19:21:13

Remind me why we can spend 3 million a day attacking Libya for no apparent reason but are closing CAB, surestart, cutting respite, carers, nusrses, police etc
Wars end. Public spending just increases year on year unless someone puts a stop to it.

Labour increased public spending from 300 billion a year to 700 billion a year. I don't think things got that much better. It's clear that cuts can be made and do need to be made. I don't know anyone that isn't ideologically anti-Tory that disagrees.

noddyholder Wed 03-Aug-11 19:22:20

No one doubts cuts need to be made but the rate at which they are being made is inhuman unless you are loaded!

midnightexpress Wed 03-Aug-11 19:23:27

Don't see the Afghan war or indeed the Libyan one ending any time soon. I wonder how much we have spent to date in Afghanistan?

Solopower Wed 03-Aug-11 19:50:34

Thank you for the link, Custardo, and Ttosca for the explanations. There is so much that simply doesn't add up in the messages that come out of Tory Party HQ.

I am sure you (and Owen Jones of the Guardian) are right about the causes of the deficit. But what is your solution?

Solopower Wed 03-Aug-11 19:58:30

The article also addresses two other things that have been puzzling me: What exactly do people mean when they talk about productivity wrt health and education? Surely the only way to increase productivity in a hospital is to save more lives (not more money)?

As the article says: 'In any case, the government's talk of driving up productivity in the public sector is fraught with problems. It's not like making cars or TVs: it's impossible to put a monetary value on everything that our public services do. If spending on cancer treatment went up by 10% and cancer deaths subsequently went down by 5%, that might not score well for productivity – but would we really see it as a failure?'

The other thing is I have been wondering why the government is so against the public sector. Jones explains it - they want to privatise education and health services:

'But bashing public sector workers has clear political dividends for the Tories. Last month, Cameron pledged to open public services to private companies. ... Portraying public sector workers as inefficient layabouts helps build the case for privatisation. And yet it's dogma triumphing over the facts: studies suggest contracting out services actually hits productivity.

It's also classic Tory divide-and-rule politics. Make low-paid call centre and supermarket workers resent nurses and firefighters, and you will destroy any potential unity on issues such as cuts, pensions and rights in the workplace.

What sort of society demonises people who work in schools and hospitals, put out fires or collect rubbish?'

Very sad. sad

Tortington Wed 03-Aug-11 20:03:19

well indeed solo.

it's all about privatisation so that rich people who are in the know get a lot of money and the standard of services go down

that's ok though becuase poor people don't vote.

wordfactory Wed 03-Aug-11 20:06:43

noddyholder see you say everyone agrees..but actually they don't.
There are several posters on here who don't agree...or if they do they never ever come up with anything that they will safely agree can be cut.

We can all say til the cows come home that the deficit was caused by x, y or z. It actually doesn't matter. The reality is that we have to deal with the deficit or our repayments on borrowing will become too expensive.

I think people need to come up with credible alternatives to deal with the deficit, then the public won't turn on the public sector.

I also think that those who refute every cut ought to make it very clear that they want tax hikes. Then at least the choice is clear and honest.

crazynanna Wed 03-Aug-11 20:07:54

Totally agree with the divide and rule idealogy.

I am just bowled over it is taking so long for the electorate to twig. hmm

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now