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Birmingham ICT goes to INDIA

(45 Posts)
ethel1 Thu 02-Jun-11 22:40:14

Birmingham city council to outsource ict to India !
Shouldn't councils keep this in house, If these people are made redundant the tax payers will have to pay the dole money, they say young people in India will have jobs to help their economy ,
what about our young people ?
Manufacturings gone, Next council workers?

cleverything Thu 02-Jun-11 22:41:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

claig Thu 02-Jun-11 23:32:48

It's called globalisation. First they came for manufacturing, then they came for the call centres, now they come for council workers. Poverty and turning the clock back will be the end result.

claig Thu 02-Jun-11 23:33:39

And what did the unions do? Very little, because they also believe in globalisation.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou Fri 03-Jun-11 07:29:21

It's IT not ICT. No one has ever talked about ICT outside a school. The Indians need the work more.

claig Fri 03-Jun-11 08:08:20

Are you sure? Have you asked the council employees in Birmingham's IT department? But they don't really count, do they?

claig Fri 03-Jun-11 08:10:17

How are they going to pay their £100 bin fines and their increasing council tax charges and their mortgages if they are out of work?

claig Fri 03-Jun-11 08:15:56

Actually I think the Tories have scrapped the socialist bin fines; so that's one less burden on the working people.

AuntieMonica Fri 03-Jun-11 08:18:27

claig, i find your comment First they came for manufacturing, then they came for the call centres, now they come for council workers. Poverty and turning the clock back will be the end result. offensive, racist and ill-informed

i'm not going to flatter you with an explanation, you should know why


claig Fri 03-Jun-11 08:24:59

Don't bother trying to flatter me.

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me."

The point about it is, just as they first came for the socialists, and he did not speak out because he was not a socialist; in the end they came for him and no one supported him.

Different workers and industries are being picked off one at a time, and there is no solidarity between workers. One day they will come for your job, and those out of work will say it serves you right.

AuntieMonica Fri 03-Jun-11 08:34:23

the way you wrote the original post didn't read as a paraphrase at all, it really does come across as racist - apologies

claig Fri 03-Jun-11 08:35:40

No problem. There was no racist intent.

AuntieMonica Fri 03-Jun-11 08:42:34

but back to your original's all about saving money!

many companies have gone to these huge IT support networks, Birmingham City Council are not alone in it at all.

what cleverything says is's not 'the Council' who are outsourcing it's the IT company who already have the contract.
most council contracts have to go out to tender don't they?
a global network will always win that, due to cost.

claig Fri 03-Jun-11 08:43:35

I'm not talking about Indians coming for people's jobs; I'm talking about global finance and the cheerleaders of globalisation, who won't suffer from it, but will profit from it.

claig Fri 03-Jun-11 08:47:00

Yes, but that is privatisation to the extreme. Shipping our jobs off-shore, so that global capital can make huge profits, while local people retreat into increasing poverty. Why did the unions never stand up and oppose the process? Do we want to destroy our communities and our prosperity, so that global capital can more profits?

claig Fri 03-Jun-11 08:56:45

Cuts, cuts and saving money. That's what they tell us, but it's really the people and the workers suffering death by a thousand cuts. They don't cut their salaries, their pensions and their expenses; those they just pump ever up.

wikolite Fri 03-Jun-11 12:26:52

Its about efficiency, if the work can be outsourced to India then it will be cheaper for the council.

claig Fri 03-Jun-11 12:37:23

Yes itis, but at what cost? The cost is the unemployment of local people. Why aren't some of the council chiefs outsourced to India? That might provide a great saving. Why is it just the ordinary workers who get outsourced?

wikolite Fri 03-Jun-11 12:41:21

"Ordinary" workers work gets outsourced because there is more competition in the global economy for lower skilled workers and whilst more executive roles are higher skilled and there is less of that sort of labour available in the global economy. I don't really have a problem with this as I think we need to accept there is now a global division of labour and to try and fight against this would be mean the Government would have to become protectionist.

claig Fri 03-Jun-11 12:45:51

What's wrong with protecting the jobs of people in this country? Aren't they supposed to represent us? Are we going to outsource everything because it is cheaper? What will happen to the people? Will we have to move abroad to do the jobs at lower wages in order to earn a living, whilst those in "executive roles" earn huge amounts and lovely jubberly bonuses for making cost cuts that put people out of work?

wikolite Fri 03-Jun-11 12:50:10

We have to accept that in some sectors developing nations have a competitive advantage over us and that to keep jobs that would otherwise be transferred into other countries then the Government would have to subsidise them by taxing industries that we do have a competitive advantage in hence reducing their competitiveness, hence maintaining an inefficient allocation of resources. You cannot stand against the forces of globalisation.

claig Fri 03-Jun-11 12:56:53

That type of globalisation is a race to the bottom and is a form of slavery. It will lead to no rights at all. Countries can make their own laws and regulations in order to protect their citizens from being at the beck and call of the global finance market. It's like saying we can't regulate the banks; they are so clever and we should just let them get on in with it, even if they end up destroying the real economy and real lives.

wikolite Fri 03-Jun-11 13:01:04

Its not about a race to the bottom its about specialising in industries and sectors what we have a competitive advantage. Admittedly the Governments tuition fee policy is vey unhelpfuk in this respect.

claig Fri 03-Jun-11 13:09:40

Are you referring to the reliance on our finance industry?

dreamingofsun Fri 03-Jun-11 18:24:00

its because the UK staff are so expensive and their pension liabilities so high. part of me thinks its not right but then the other part thinks would i prefer to pay higher council tax and the answer is no. when i consider that 25% of my council tax is spent on council pensions my sympathy drops.

they will probably have to re-employ the uk people anyway to correct the errors made by the indians - if the experience of the company i work for is anything to go by.

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