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Have you noticed that

(14 Posts)
newwave Sun 28-Nov-10 18:44:50

The ConDems seem to have dropped "we are all in this together" and "the cuts hit the rich harder than the poor"

Always was papable nonsence.

Chil1234 Mon 29-Nov-10 10:43:51

Have you noticed the people complaining most loudly at the moment - and the ones that Milliband is depserately trying to woo - are the squeezed middle-income earners? .... 'The rich' are paying up but are always cushioned by their wealth. 'The poor' are largely being protected. I don't think 'palpable nonsence(sic)' is all that accurate.

newwave Mon 29-Nov-10 16:36:17

The poor are largely protected, thats a "wait and see". How about the users of specialist services:

Home helps
Help with disabled children
Respite relief

Dont you think there wont be cut to ribbons.

Chil1234 Mon 29-Nov-10 17:35:49

To date, there's been a lot of scaremongering about public services but very little factual information from anyone responsible for providing them as to what exactly the changes will be. Contrast that uncertainty with the absolute certainty of the loss of various income sources (tax credits, child benefit) for middle/upper income earners and changes to things like tax and tuition fees - which will not affect poorer families in the same way.

There's a reason Milliband is going on about 'the squeezed middle' and not 'the poor'... he has access to the information and can see that the poor are being protected. Whereas the angry people - the ones he can potentially convert to his message - are the middle-income earners.

newwave Mon 29-Nov-10 21:39:30

Chil1234, due to the 25% cut in the council grant it is inevitable that local services will be devistated this will be down the the ConDems actions.

In this mornings paprers one council has said it will shut (if I remember right) 14 of 22 libraries and reduce opening hours.

Others have said the criteria for home helps will be raised and meals on wheels will have cost rises above inflation

Chil1234 Tue 30-Nov-10 05:25:23

There are a wide variety of services used by a lot of different people. Essential ones will be retained even if they cost more, are provided by different agencies or the qualifying criteria change in future. Non-essentials will be trimmed back or fall by the wayside when councils have to prioritise budget. Things are going to change, certainly. However, that's not quite the same as 'cut to ribbons' or 'devastated'. Newspapers don't necessarily have the full story.

Knowing how at least one council works, there are big opportunities to save costs in the form of reduced waste, wage restraint, efficiencies and internal cost-savings.

sarah293 Tue 30-Nov-10 09:56:35

Message withdrawn

Chil1234 Tue 30-Nov-10 12:29:29

'The cuts' were only announced in October. You'e been waiting for that hoist much longer than that.... I think you're being fobbed off

Igglybuff Tue 30-Nov-10 12:33:32

As the cuts aren't fully in force yet (October announcement for 2011-12 budgets) I think we've not seen it yet.
The squeezed middle incomers are the middle England voters, hence more noise made about them.

Things like cuts to library services hurt the poor more (think free activities for kids, use of Internet, free books) but won't hit the national radar.

sarah293 Tue 30-Nov-10 14:32:58

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SharronM1 Tue 30-Nov-10 18:26:37

Chil1234,
The poor are not 'being largely protected.' The cuts are targeted on the poor. Study after study has shown that the poorest 10% stand to lose a higher propertion of their incomes than the rich.Out of far, far less.
Those on housing benefit are to have to move to a house in the lowest 30% of rents - or else pay the extra themselves.Already,under New Labour's regime some of the unemployed are left with less than half their orginal £65/£51.85 after having to top up Housing Benefit.
Benefits being uprated with the CPI inflation measure instead of RPI.
Cuts in Child Tax Credit for those working certain hours.
Limiting the Employment & Support Allowance for people who are unable to work due to disability/being chronically sick to 1 year.
Universal Credit including a provision to force people in work to look for better paid jobs and for their partners with children over 5 to be forced to look for work - or lose what is now Housing Benefit and Child Tax Credit.
The list would be too long.

sarah293 Tue 30-Nov-10 18:40:57

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SharronM1 Tue 30-Nov-10 20:55:20

Yes, EMA. This is outrageous. Apparently the government say that are abolishing it as it is 'not well targeted.' But it's only for households with incomes less that £30,800 - and to get the full £30 that is £20,800.
Both my teenagers are on EMA. My son is 18 and has already completed a site joinery apprenticeship. But all he could get was odd days of labouring work here and there. Instead of claiming JSA most of the time he's gone to college to study for level 3 site joinery and gets £30 EMA. Without this he would not have done the course.
Apparently next year we will have to apply to my daughter's school for a discretionary learner support payment ie being made to plead poverty and getting far less, if anything.
At the Sheffield protest last week the majority were 6th form and FE students - outraged at losing EMA not only the increased fees.None have a good word for Clegg.

sarah293 Wed 01-Dec-10 08:39:04

Message withdrawn

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