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How bad do you think the Irish budget is going to be?

(767 Posts)
KerryMumbles Mon 15-Nov-10 22:10:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

elmofan Mon 15-Nov-10 22:17:38

Im dreading it tbh. Reckon water rates are on the cards along with the property tax.

longfingernails Mon 15-Nov-10 22:22:00

Not Irish - but I love Ireland. I have had many wonderful holidays there.

That said, I am livid that Britain will reportedly have to bail out Ireland. They chose to join the euro - though they needed vastly different interest rates to Germany. They chose (the second time) to accept the Lisbon treaty. Their government foolishly chose to insure all their bank deposits.

Let the banks which made loans to this badly run country take big haircuts on Irish bonds.

As a friendly neighbour, Britain should do everything we can in terms of encouraging trade, tourism, etc - but not government bailouts. Leave aside the moral hazard arguments - we don't have money to splash around for bailing out Eurozone countries - we have to deal with our own toxic financial position, thanks to Gordon Brown.

Ireland should partially default on its debt by restructuring, and then leave the Euro. The same goes for Greece, Portugal, Spain and possibly Italy. The resulting depreciation of the punt would help Irish exports and competitiveness immensly. Why should we pay for holding together the absurd political construct that is the Eurozone?

expatinscotland Mon 15-Nov-10 22:23:43

LFN is very anti-EU as well.

hmm

KerryMumbles Mon 15-Nov-10 22:30:30

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ValiumSingleton Mon 15-Nov-10 22:32:14

Dreading the budget on the 7th December...

I was thinking at least my parents have paid off their mortgage (and their house is big enough for a few relatives and hangers on!) but now they're talkign about 'property tax'!! On a house that has been paid for for 20 years!! outrageous! Or on a house that people are paying outrageous interest rates on?? on a house that is in negative equity!!

PLUS, I'm sick of reading about how greedy 'we' were. I was never greedy. Life plodded on. I never had a big salary. I saved a bit and now I'm wondering if it's even safe in an Irish bank.

I'm really ignorant though I'm afraid, why are other countries prepared to bail us out? i thought that the 34bm had already been paid out so it's too late for a bail out now anyway isn't it?? we owe so much so a bail out would just be another loan wouldn't it?! confused

KerryMumbles Mon 15-Nov-10 22:34:30

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ValiumSingleton Mon 15-Nov-10 22:36:42

Kerry - re: CA. my guess is that will be capped for two children, no matter how many you have, AND it'll be cut to 100e per child. (so I'd get 200 instead of 300). THAT could be worse imo. If you had four kids though, wow, big drop.

What do you think?

I'm on OPFA for two children and I'm expecting that to be cut from 256.30 to about 225.

I think that job seekers allowances for under 23s living at home with their mum and dads will be the biggest hit though. They're on about 220 now, and I think that'll take a big cut.

expatinscotland Mon 15-Nov-10 22:36:51

YY, we hear that here, too. How 'we' were greedy.

Bullshit.

ValiumSingleton Mon 15-Nov-10 22:39:44

I'm a single parent, doing a course, doing voluntary work when kids are at shcool adn doing assignments at night. If the gov worked as hard as me (the much maligned single parent) it would be a good thing!!!

longfingernails Mon 15-Nov-10 22:39:55

expatinscotland I am anti-EU - but the thrust of my post was more about the eurozone, which is a narrower issue.

I think the eurosceptic case against the euro has been completely and totally vindicated. Even the most fervent pro-Europeans in Britain now accept that it would have been a catastrophic error to join the euro - and those periphery countries within the eurozone (Greece, Ireland and Portugal in particular) are paying the price.

Germans are also unhappy. I remember seeing the frontpage of the Bild (German equivalent of the Sun) at the time of the Greek bailout. It said something like "sell us your islands". The German taxpayer is getting ripped off because of the eurozone, and the profligacy and bad management of certain of its member states. Now the British taxpayer will get ripped off too - and at a time of austerity!

Instead of dismissing me just because I am eurosceptic, do you care to make the intellectual case for a bailout, when we're not even in the euro?

ValiumSingleton Mon 15-Nov-10 22:41:44

ps longfingernails, Britain doesn't have to bail out Ireladn, and for some reason that I really don't understand 100% Ireland doesn't want this. I understand from watching both news, rte and bbc, that Ireland is being pressured to accept this bailout.

Can anybody explain !?

KerryMumbles Mon 15-Nov-10 22:42:59

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elmofan Mon 15-Nov-10 22:43:34

Yes hints have been given about cuts in CB, oaps pensions & SW. The property tax is going to be €80 a month so i've heard. God only knows what else they will hit us with.

KerryMumbles Mon 15-Nov-10 22:45:10

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ValiumSingleton Mon 15-Nov-10 22:46:52

I do Kerry, it's going to be Dickensian. The CA is only once a month but I believe that OPFA is ALSO going to be hit in this budget, always been the safest one before, but remember bitch face hanafin talking about single mothers "growing accustomed to their benefits". I feel that means brace yourselves hooors, you're going to be hit.

I think there is going to be either property tax, which is an outrage, or water tax, I mgiht be prepared to pay an amount for water. but property tax!? they are having a laff!!!!!!!!!!!

ValiumSingleton Mon 15-Nov-10 22:48:29

I think pensioners on a state pension who also have a private pension will be hit (ie, their state pension will be cut). So all those years my dad scrimped and saved so that his retirement would be comfortable, he might as well not have bothered!! oh, and he'll have to pay property tax on the house he's owned OUTRIGHT for over 20 years now.

angry

longfingernails Mon 15-Nov-10 22:49:07

ValiumSingleton The EU is saying it is better to give a bailout loan to Ireland now, before the market interest rate on Irish debt makes it an emergency.

Their logic is supposedly that it is better to prevent rushed decisions. Also, other EU states become riskier to lend to if they give money to Ireland (because their own borrowing and exposure to potentially bad debt goes up). That imposes a cost to them, in terms of their own higher interest rates. By acting now instead of at a time of emergency, the rise in their own interest rates might be limited.

Of course, that is all conjecture. Eurosceptics suspect it is because it gives the EU an excuse to get new eurozone-wide (and possibly EU-wide) powers.

Ireland hates the idea because it is an admission that it has lost control of its finances.

It is my understanding that Britain is obliged to participate in the bailout, thanks to an agreement Alistair Darling made in 2009. We provide 14% of the funds for the European Stabilisation Fund - and we don't even have a veto.

A link www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/ 8133407/What-an-EU-bailout-for-Ireland-could-mean- for-Britain.html

longfingernails Mon 15-Nov-10 22:50:15

Oh - and bailing out Ireland will supposedly help stop contagion to Portugal, and especially Spain. The world could probably handle Greece, Ireland or Portugal going bust - but Spain is too big to fail.

elmofan Mon 15-Nov-10 22:52:47

Isn't property tax double taxation though confused ? Considering when we bought our houses we already paid stamp duty on them.

KerryMumbles Mon 15-Nov-10 23:13:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Secretwishescometrue Mon 15-Nov-10 23:20:58

I think its fair to say we are all a bit sick at the thoughts of what's to come be it "losing" the run of the country (pretty much) if we have to be bailed out, plus the humiliation of it! We already look stupid (well the gov I mean) and its like they are a naughty child who is tryin to wiggle out of the catastrophic mess its got its self into but being too pig headed and foolish to yell help me, at the same time as being pulled deeper and deeper into quick sand... It really is a terrible mess we're in and totally random but I read last week bloody Brian Cowen earns more then Barak Obama a week! At a shocking rate of ?5000 a week he is "running" the country!! Before they go slashing what every other poor Joe soap can bring home they need to at the very least cut their wages in half, yer at least half not a poxy 5 or 10% they need to feel it a bit like the rest of us! On the subject of the rest of us I just can't understand why can't/won't they means test child allowance? If a well off couple on say ?40 or 50grand a year combined are getting child benefit for their children surely stopping their benefit altogether would make more of a saving without hurting them in the way it will to cut down on everyone including people who are desperately struggling as it is! <p.s. Lol at the Hanifan "quotes" grin >

longfingernails Mon 15-Nov-10 23:21:42

KerryMumbles We have to pay council tax - which is in effect a (bad) property tax. More expensive houses get taxed more.

Going back to the bailout - I still can't get over the fact we might be on the hook for £6-7 bn. To put that in context of current spending - that is about the size of the entire higher education budget.

More accurate to talk about capital spending, I s'pose. £6-7bn in capital investment could save Nimrod and the Harriers, or build lots of suburban rail and new roads, or pay for the Building Schools for Future many times over. It is a travesty that we will soon be blithely handing it over to Ireland at the say-so of a Eurocrat.

KerryMumbles Mon 15-Nov-10 23:24:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GiddyPickle Mon 15-Nov-10 23:25:57

I am a bit confused about water rates. We pay a fortune in water rates. Don't they have the same in Ireland then? We have to pay £X hundred pounds to the council every year and if they get a sniff that you're using too much (a power shower, a pool or commercial use of any sort) they stick you on a water meter and it costs even more (unless you are a single person who is at work all day I guess)

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