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All the Muslim ladies!

(105 Posts)
GothAnneGeddes Fri 05-Feb-10 14:10:07

Salaam Aalikum,

I know we sometimes have threads for Ramadan and other events, but I was wondering if we could have a general Muslim ladies one.

I have to give a big hijab flutter to Riven who is always so patient explaining Islam on here. I usually always end up resorting to name calling.

leenasmom Tue 23-Feb-10 22:39:45

Walikam Asalaam

Hi am a lurker on the boards...have posted a few times but find all you mumnetters a bit daunting blushlol.
I too sometimes have questions about ISlam as am trying to bring my dd8 and ds7 to know about our faith and sometimes struggle to explain things to them as do not really understand myself...

Poohbearsmom Tue 16-Mar-10 12:25:36

Salam sisters would be lovely if this thread took off, i dont have any muslim friends in real life as i live very far from the nearest mosque but it would be nice to talk islam sometimes

GothAnneGeddes Fri 26-Mar-10 17:35:22

Salaam Alaikum,

Nice to see some replies.

Leenasmom - There are some nice books for children out there and also some nicce songs too. Something like "A is for Allah" teaches them about Allah without being too in your face. Getting them to contemplate nature is also a good way of introducing them to things.

Poohbearsmom - I live in a Muslim area, but I'm often too busy to see anyone.

Btw, are you both Brummies / from the Black country? I noticed you're both 'Moms'.

sarah293 Fri 26-Mar-10 17:38:19

Message withdrawn

Mtorun Sun 28-Mar-10 14:38:29

Salaam Alaikom,

I'm also Muslim. Not a mum but a nanny

feelinglost2010 Tue 06-Apr-10 00:31:13

Hi ladies,
can you help? I am married to a Muslim (I am Catholic but not practising). We have three children - 12, 10 and 7. Two years ago my husband stopped them attending all after school activities and started them attending madrasa at a local mosque. I was stunned as this was done without discussion but didn't fly off the handle, managed the situation and over time we revised it so the girls attend madrasa on a Saturday morning and our son attends three times a week. He has swimming lessons/football training on the other weekdays.

Recently, we have been called into the school twice because our son is not concentrating/telling lies and being disruptive. I attribute this in part to him not getting any time to simply free play with friends after school so he is doing that during school time. I requested to my husband that we reinstate one play date a week in lieu of swimming lessons (he has achieved a great level in swimming ASA level 9 and I am happy for him to stop the lessons). Husband agreed. I told our son who was ecstatic. Then husband told me today that he is going to take son to madrasa four days a week in future now that swimming has stopped and if I want a play date then son has to stop football (which he knows I won't stop as son loves football).

I feel like I have no input to how our children are being raised. They have to come straight home from school to say their prayers. They cannot go to friends houses to play as they have to be home to say prayers. I tried to negotiate one day where they could do a play date and for girls it is not so much of an issue but for son it is - not allowed and no discussion.

My husband can't engage in talking about this. He is decreeing and I accept or... well, I don't know what the or is... I have tried hard to be rational, non emotional and accepting. I am not religious and feel that if he wishes to give them instruction in his religion then I should let that happen. I have not prevented them going to madrasa (driving them there when he is unavailable etc). I have reminded them to say their prayers when he is not home etc.

I have emphasised how important I think it is for a 10 year old boy to have the opportunity to play and have lived with this situation of no play dates since Oct 2008 but increasingly I am finding this difficult and unfair to the children. My son goes to school, comes home, says his prayers, has about one hour relaxation (if his father doesn't ask him to revise his koran), then leaves at 5.30 for madrasa, returns at 7.30 (30 mins commute each way) and then has to have a bath, do his reading for school and go to sleep. That is his life Mon-Fri. I have suggested one day a week he would be allowed to invite a friend home or visit a friend and the invite home is okay as long as I organise it, they leave by 5.30 and he can say his prayers. The visit a friend is not an option according to my husband as he has to do his madrasa and this will be increased to four days if he stops swimming.

Today I said I can't take it anymore. I wish to separate and now I am typing this and I am crying. I believed we could work this out and in my heart I want my children to be raised in a happy family but I feel lost and unheard in my house. My kids know I have no say and they ask me things and know that I no longer can say yea or nay. That we will have to run it by dad cos if he says nay then thats a nay. If I dared to let son go on a play date then when he gets home his dad will give him a verbal lashing so the child will be too afraid to do it again even if I say it is okay to do it.

How did I get to here?

I think what I am asking is - is it unreasonable to ask for my son to be allowed one play date a week where he visits a friend after school (3.10pm) and comes home at 6.30pm? My friends are non Muslim so cannot advise me. My husbands friends are split into two camps - very religious who do not allow their children to mix with non Muslims or very relaxed whose children do not attend madrasa at all. Neither situation covers mine so they can't advise me either. We have no family in this country and actually chose the country as a neutral location for us both to work in.

Any support or advice that you can give me about this is truly appreciated. I want my children to have their mother and father their to support them. My husband has told me that I can do what I want to do. If I chose to leave then that is my choice but he is taking our son to madrasa four days a week when school resumes.

As you can see my moniker is lostandconfused2010 but really that could read lostandconfusedfortwoyears. I have to live with what he decides to inform me of or I can leave. Either way, he is making decisions and thats that.

I have asked to attend counselling - he has refused saying there is nothing counsellors can tell him that he doesn't know himself. I have asked him to have counselling within our group of friends - he can nominate whomever he wants, he even has attended similar style sessions for another couple we know where he was part of the group providing support to the couple. He has refused this request too.

I have not told my family about this as I feel that to open the genie bottle would mean it could never be closed but I am at a loss now where to go. I feel that since Oct 2008 when this whole process started that there is no longer discussion about how we raise the children. He decides and I find out through observation or the children telling me.

I know the play date is symptomatic of deeper issues but I am at a loss of how to get to these issues if I cannot get him to the discussion table. I have tried to mediate conversation but as I am so heavily involved it is difficult to mediate and be a party to the discussion. I end up becoming emotional and then he rises to that and the discussion falls apart.

Can anyone advise me where to go, what to do?

mummyOFone Tue 06-Apr-10 01:08:59

asalamulaikum i wld like dis thread 2 tke of! Im nw 2 mumsnet! Feelinglost2010 ur comments is really really sad. But im sure we'r al in the same boat! The mothers thinking 1 way of raising and fathers thinking another! I would say 2 go and ask a local mulvi 4 advise (dats a local mosque teacher) in my humble opinion what is reqd here is patience. . . . But whn u sd there's 'no discussion' in an argument i know where ur coming from! Thats the same with my husband! Maybe its 'an asian' thing! Lol my thoughts and prayers r with u sis! X

mummyOFone Tue 06-Apr-10 01:16:31

btw. . . My question is. . . Cn my husband stop my parents visitng me and our children in our house?? He seems to think hs the head of the household and he has a right? Y does he say this? Because my parents have fallen out with his! Pl advise. . . Ta!

umayma Tue 06-Apr-10 12:05:30

hello feelinglost2010

i understand what you mean from reading your post because i know a few fathers who would be the same as your husband.

your husband is putting their islamic upbringing first, he is making them pray because the prayers are compulsory when they reach puberty so he is getting them in a habit of it. i understand where he is coming from. However he could be a bit more understanding towards you but some men just aren't like this and won't change. they put their foot down and thats it.

apart from being stubborn and controlling and not up for discussions, (which is a bit normal for some of them!!!)

is he a good man and father?

there is no chance on earth that any muslim husband i know would go to a marriage counsellor. so i wouldn't put too much hope in that idea.

just wanted to tell you that my neices and nephews go to madrassa too after every school day. my children will do the same God willing, i would prefer them to go to an islamic school so they can learn Qur'an there but i doubt we could afford it.

they have a lot to learn at mosque and its easier to learn when they're younger. Plus growing up in a non muslim country i think their islamic education is even more important.

i am muslim, converted from christianity 6 yrs ago. my husband is asian.
to be honest, i don't think you should separate over this, i know a few husbands like this but they are good in other ways.

its easy for me to say though! hope you're okay xxx

winnybella Tue 06-Apr-10 12:22:28

I'm not a muslim, so sorry if butting in.

But isn't the real problem here that you let your husband decide about everything?

I'm sorry but he sounds like a bully.

You both have equal rights re your children.

I don't think religion should be an excuse to bully others.

Your husband doesn't have a right to forbid your parents visiting you- unless you live in a country where women's rights don't exist.

Umamyma- the man dictates how she should live, demeans her in the eyes of her children and you say he might still be a good man? Are you joking?

umayma Wed 07-Apr-10 19:19:57

no winnybella i'm not joking and you are getting the posts mixed up.

feelinglost2010 i know its awful that your husband won't discuss things and isn't giving you a say, i think you have handled things really well so far. sorry i have no advice.

i was just saying that i could imagine my husband to be quite similar in this situation.

my husband is great in other things,he loves the kids to bits and spending time with them and helping at home etc but i know when he's made his mind up on something thats it. end of discussion.

i think you could try and speak to someone from mosque, ask their opinion, anything is worth a try

To the sister whose husband won't let her family visit, maybe remind him of the importance of family ties, we're not allowed to cut family ties, i don't know what you can do either sister, sorry xxx

Poohbearsmom Thu 08-Apr-10 13:58:32

Feelinglost2010 so sorry ye are going through a tough time is there anyway your ds could jus go to a muslim friends house to play then they could just pray together? Or you have a friend over for an hour or two before going to the mosque? i can very much understand your dh wants islam to come first & i think thats very important esp growing up in a non muslim country where it would be so much easier to go down the wrong path cause things that are wrong for us... drinking, smoking, boyfriend girlfriend relationships & all that goes with them! thats the obvious stuff but also listening to music pop/hip hop whatever it ant allowed & while u may totally accept that, away on a play date the parents/older siblings of ur ds's friend mayb listening or watchin mtv or whatever & thats tot normal & grand for them but u can see why some muslims your dh mayb would just not want to "risk" it... Same goes for T.V at a playdates house da mum of the house might hav da rerun of Eastenders on in the background or home & away or whatever but we jus arnt supposed to watch these type of stuff & ya might say "o cop on they are only little kids they wouldnt even be watchin it if it WAS on in the same room"... but i guarantee they'l look at exactly the point snoging/going at it s! that ant something I'd be willing to "risk" im sure plenty of ppl might think thats stupid but mayb these are some of the things your dh is worried but doesnt know how to put it or thinks ul disagree so wants to bring them to an islamic enviroment to learn and ENJOY! Cause they usually really enjoy madrassa & my big boy is only 3.7 but LOVES learning the quran he thrives on the one to one time with his dad & feels so proud of himself for any tiny little bit he learns! its not homework or punishment!! that being said the prophet Mohammed (pbuh) was not a monk he laughed, joked, had fun & played games with his family & friends so we know life is ment to be enjoyed having fun too aswell as studying...

PussinJimmyChoos Thu 08-Apr-10 14:14:40

Salaam o Alikum Sisters...nice to have a sister's thread smile

FeelingLost...I really don't know what to say to help to be honest. On the one hand, I can see why your husband wants them to get into the habit of prayer as its compulsory and one of the five Pillars of Islam..there is no Islam without prayer and getting into the habit of praying x5 a day is sooo hard - I'm a convert to Islam and I still don't always make the x5 - its hard. Having it instilled in you from a young age is important.

Having said that, I think its important to get a balance..your son's schedule does sound very full on and you need to take care to ensure that he doesn't grow up resenting Islam and thus moving away from the religion rather than loving it for what it is.

I think a balance can be achieved - there is nothing wrong or unislamic (afaik) with him only going to the mosque lessons a few times a week so that he isn't too worn out or tired after school BUT he still says his prayers when he gets in - that to me would be a good compromise and something I would be happy for my son to do

Also, there is no reason why he can't say his prayers when his friends are around - I've prayed in front of non Muslim friends/family before. The prayer doesn't take that long and rather than him resenting it as he sees it as something that causes his friends to have to go home, you can make it an itegral part of the playdate..ok, DS is going to pray now but afterwards we will all have ice cream or whatever...

I hope this helps in some ways..the sad thing is, that the cultural aspect of the man making the decisions does dominate in mixed marriages (not just Muslim/Non Muslim ones) and it takes a lot of compromise to make it work and I speak from experience

Take care

Puss

Poohbearsmom Thu 08-Apr-10 14:35:28

MummytoOne islamicly we are NOT allowed to cut our ties with our families regardless of their religion... That being said there are plenty of husbands & wives who just dont want the in-laws at their house for whatever reason but it does need to be talked about at length... if they are not welcome at your house then do ye go to visit them at their's or at a neutral place? go to lunch or go shopping or a walk in the park or whatever with them? we must respect our parents and we must try to keep them happy and happy with us, this is in the Quran it is very important. Not always easy im the first to admit (my dad is an alcoholic & nice or good person & my mum is mentally ill its not always easy!) i hope ye can work it out together xxx p.s salam Umayma & other sisters hows everyones week going???

Poohbearsmom Thu 08-Apr-10 14:50:42

Hi Puss i think you make a good point bout balance thats def important imho & also making prayers something lovely & normal & part of who you are & worthy of dropping everything for a couple of minutes! I too am a convert & it doesnt come "naturally" to me but its just not even a question to my born muslim relatives its just the most important most natural thing in the world! I want that for my kids too

littleducks Sat 10-Apr-10 01:28:42

Sounds like a miserable situation for you, feelinglost2010 and very complicated, i think you need to explain it in full and discuss it with someone.

Would your husband consider counselling with an islamic marriage counsellor? There are some around dependant upon where you are in the country, they do the same stuff that 'normal' marriage counsellors do but understand all the cultural context etc. amnd so you dont have to keep explaining everything.

It sounds like your husband changed quirte dramatically, do you know why this was?

I hope that you manage to resolve your issues, but can see that having a husband who totally disregards your opinion would not be a situation you would want to remain in.

mummyOFone Sat 10-Apr-10 23:05:58

thanks guys 4 ur opinions! hpe alz wl x

ummnusaybah Sun 11-Apr-10 11:38:40

Asalamalaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatu
Another sister revert here.

sarah293 Sun 11-Apr-10 18:43:57

Message withdrawn

GothAnneGeddes Mon 12-Apr-10 03:05:15

Walikum Salaam,

Masha Allah to Riven, Puss and anyone who said their piece on the burqa thread.

Feelinglost - It seems your dh, is trying to be enforce the madrassa as he fears your ds going astray. So, he means well, but he does need to find a balance. Maybe invite some of the children from the madrassa round for tea.

Or if your ds likes a particular sport or hobby, encourage him to take part in that too. Sport and fitness are valued in Islam.

As for the "Husband being the boss of everything", it says clearly in the Qur'an that mutual consultation (shura) is the best way of doing things.

Unfortunately, in some cultures (NOT the RELIGION) men are conditioned to think everything about them is golden, and that includes their decisions.

To deal with a man like you have be very manipulative, stroke their ego and honey your words. Some women are very adept at this and enjoy playing their husband like a saxophone, others find it very tedious indeed.

MummyofOne - Your husband as no right to do this under Islamic law. None. You are their daughter, Muslim or not, that tie must be respected and not broken. Also, state to him that he is giving a very bad impression of the deen.

Love and Salaams to everyone grin

fuzzywuzzy Mon 12-Apr-10 05:18:57

Feelinglost, does your husband know you are considering splitting up with him?

Of course you get a say in how the household is run, how far is your son in his Islamic studies at the madrassa, what is he on now can he recite the quran, if so why is your husband wanting to increase the Madrassa days?

I think you are going to have to speak to your husand tell him he needs to meet you half way or the alternative here is the end of the marriage. Tell him the two of you need to mediate with third party intervention as you earlier suggested as otherwise you have reached the end.

Islamically, your children should receive religious instruction, they should also be given time to play and be children and you should be consulted in decisions, The prophet (pbuh), consulted with his wives, it generates love and respect.

You poor thing, was he always like this?

sarah293 Mon 12-Apr-10 10:15:13

Message withdrawn

GothAnneGeddes Mon 12-Apr-10 16:31:53

Riven - Yes! They don't realise that Muslim women are under no obligation to explain to them the Muslim POV and they certainly do not have the right to then interrogate and insult that Muslim woman.

I suggest either a Muslim Mumsnetter boycott of such threads, or that we all stick a load of biscuits on there. wink

sarah293 Mon 12-Apr-10 17:37:34

Message withdrawn

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