I'm thinking of handing in my resignation as Director of Music/Church Organist - but I'm not sure.....

[TheQueenOfQuotes]

if I really want to.

I'll try to keep this as short as I can as I know I tend to waffle.

Been playing at church for nearly 5yrs now. When I started there was a small, but quite well formed, choir (about 12-15 regular members). More men than women though (as it usually the case). Gradually the numbers dwindled, 2 of the 4 men died, one left as he didn't like the way things were going and the other left.......well because I there wasn't really much we could sing with just one bass.

A lot of the sopranos were youngsters, who have just left to go to University and before the summer the quite basically folded.

A few weeks ago the man who didn't like the way things were done offered to help get a choir together for the Christmas service - FANTASTIC I thought. It was agreed that it was to be "marketed" as a FUN thing, come along sing some carols, perhaps learn one or two choir pieces, but basically just be there at the front to help lead the congregation.

And indeed he has, we've got a 20 strong choir to sing at our Christmas Carol Service. We got together before the first rehearsal and he ran through a list of the music he thought we could do, I was quite happy with the list and the first practice went ok.

Last Wednesday though I turned up and he had (very kindly) got all the music sorted out and put into folders for people so it was altogether - that was fine except most of the music was different from what we'd agreed and I didn't know one of them, and hate the arrangement of another.

He then virtually took over choir practice, telling people what we'd be practising next, telling the youngsters to stop talking (they weren't - it was the adults!), and not really giving those people who don't usually sing in choirs (and therefore can't read music/find it hard to keep up) a chance to say "HELP"!

He'd ask a man who occasionaly covers for me on the organ to join the choir, and he (also very kindly) offered to take over if I needed to go/sort out the DS's (because of DH's working hours I have to take all 3 DS's with me to choir practice).

After we'd "finished" he muttered something about "some of us staying on for a bit"....but invited those that wanted to to leave to go....which they did. It turns out that they'd stayed for nearly 1hr after I'd gone practising various bits.

As a result 5 people spoke to me the following day and said they felt they shouldn't really been there (they'd been invited to leave, and had, and then consequently missed a big chunk of rehearsal that would have REALLY helped them). Thankfully they've agreed to keep coming.

Also this "man" announced that "there will be a practise next Wednesday, but the following week it will be on the 14th - a Friday"...well NO-ONE ASKED ME if that was ok - and I'm actually going out....as it happens my relief organist has offered to take the rehearsal but I just feel I should have been asked.

I'm not a brilliant organist, I'm not very organised, and my "forte" certainly isn't with running choirs (although I'm capable of teaching a choir music in 4 parts), and obviously with the way that the music has gone downhill in the church since I've been there not really doing a very good job.

No-one has actually said anything to me, but I get the feeling that a lot of the "old timers" don't like the way I do things, find the children at choir practice a nuisance (admittedly I do occasionaly have to give DS3 a quick cuddle, or ask the older DS's to be quiet but they're not that bad) and really rather wish they had someone that was a better player, choir master/mistress, more organised and didn't have the distraction of little children running around.

At the moment I feel I'm only really doing it for the money (I get £120 a month for my "efforts"), although I do still enjoy doing the "extra" bits I do like playing for our monthly after school service, and for toddler church during the week - I don't feel that anyone has a problem with me there.

However, on the other hand I LOVE playing the organ, trying my best at running the choir etc and I know I'd really miss it if I stopped. Plus I've got one or 2 close friends at church who I usually only see at church stuff (our lives just don't slot into each others apart from when we're there), and I think if I stopped playing then I wouldn't feel comfortable or "right" still attending the church. I sort of feel that if I'm going I should be contributing - and music is the only way I've found so far of helping out.

I'm really not sure what to do and would appreciate any comments......

[Tortington]

you shouldnt resign but market the mass take over by retired old man with nothing else to do - as communal involvement - due to your efforts - there is a volunteer choirmaster - and officially make the responsability his - but reamin THE BOSS>

arrange regular meeting 1-2-1 with this man and in this setting you can tell him what you feel.

Make sure this man has a 'Vice' choirmaster who an step in for him! when he flounces, dies, makes a fuss takes a holiday an inopportune time etc.

then you must must - simply must
have a youth choir - or if younger people but not youths - maybe think of funky name.

you must take over youth choir - have youth choirmaster who does the work, photocopies the music , organises the meetings - and you manager the volunteer,

are we clear - no resigning! its about managing awkward people

you can let senior choir and their organist get on with it - and pop in occasionally to mark progress! no more micro managing - you have people - use them.

[LadyMuck]

Well I think that you're at risk of taking offence, and flouncing which would be a bit of a shame.

One practical possibility would be to see if the roles of Choirmaster and Organ Player can be split - I've seen them split in more churches than I've seen the organ master direct the choir. You get to play, but presumably wouldn't have to play for all of the rehearsals (I assume you do some rehearsals with piano).

Tbh I'm always a bit worried when musicians admit that they wouldn't go to church if they wouldn't be playing. It all seems a little too much like "it's all about me".

[TheQueenOfQuotes]

custardo - thing is, yes he's retired, but it's not a case of him havinng nothing to do.....he was a member of the choir for many years, has contributed a LOT to the church (he and his wife bought the organ about 15yrs ago for the church!), is on the PCC, and generally has a lot of "sway" on things in the church. His wife is lovely - but unfortuantely doesn't have much control of him LOL.

I'm never going to have enough people to have 2 seperate choirs......and where do you fit the 30-40 somethings into it when the "youngsters" are mainly 7-16yr olds, and the "oldies" are 65-94 (literally).

One of the "oldies" actually loves doing the modern stuff over the traditional stuff etc etc

The guy that sometimes plays for me (and is helping with rehearsals for this) isn't around a lot, he's got other commitments at churches where they have no full time organist, and also is a Saga Holiday Rep - jetting off around the world with them at in-opportune moments.

I just know that once Christmas is over, most of the "new" choir members will fiilter away and we'll have to have another drive to get them back in to do something for Easter.

I feel with my lack of organisational skills and obvious dislike of me from some quarters of the church that I'd be better off just forgetting the whole thing and letting them find someone else

[Tortington]

well call 'his' choir the senior choir and then just have 'the choir' or the occasional choir

or ask mumsnetters with more brains than i to come up with a catagory name.

[TheQueenOfQuotes]

Lady - it's not that it's "just about me" I love it on occasions when someone else plays for me/we have a visiting group who play and I can just sit down and reflect and enjoy the service, instead of constantly having to check I've got the next hymn ready, the music for afterwards, the stops (on the organ) ready, waiting for my "cue" in the literany,

• it's about the fact that music is just about the only thing I can do with any sort of competency and I like being involved (if I could read bible readings well I'd put myself forward as a reader, if I could write nice prayers I'd offer to do the intercessions, if I had the time to clean I'd put myself on the cleaning rota etc etc- but I can't do those things - but I can contribute to the music).

I wouldn't stop going to church just because I wasn't involved in the music, I'd stop going because I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that many of the people who would almost certainly prefer I wasn't in charge would still be there and I would just feel awkward.

I WOULD still go to church - just not this one.

And because I know that as soon as they needed someone to play for something if whoever replaced me couldn't - they'd ask me first.......and as a sucker who just can't say "no" I'd do it (before I became the organist there I got a call at 9am on Christmas day - could I please play for the service as the then organist was ill....of course despite the fact that my parents were coming over for the day - I agreed and had to dash straight off - not getting home until nearly 12......)

. and then I'd feel even more awkward.

There's no way the roles could be split - there simply isn't any one to do it! (my relief organist rotates between 5 other churches in the area, all of who have no permanent organist!)

[DingdongMaryBonhigh]

What does the vicar say? We've had a few power struggles in our church re: choir and the organist/choirmaster, and our vicar has made it perfectly clear on several occasions that the organist/choirmaster is in charge.

It seems to me that clear boundaries need establishing sooner rather than later, but it'll need to be done tactfully (not that I don't think you're capable of tact, I hasten to say!!!)

[TheQueenOfQuotes]

Spoke to the Vicar on Thursday (her day off - although in my defense I live just across the road from her and she was just coming out at the same time as me and she spoke to me first ).

She's spoken to the person in question (well his wife actually) and apparently it's all sorted........but then they were also (the man and his wife) apparently going to speak to me yesterday at church to clear things up.........they didn't - and they were at both services......

She told me I shouldn't quit, but at the moment that's all I feel like doing.

And no - you're right - I'm not capable of tact - that's 3/4 of my problem.

[DingdongMaryBonhigh]

Don't take any step you're going to regret. It'll be a lot harder to put things right if you leap in and resign. After all, you've worked really hard to get where you are and it seems a shame to let that go to waste.

I know from experience how difficult it is to discuss things after a church service, especially when there are lots of ears around. If things really are sorted, then maybe a friendly call to talk things over might work - invite them/yourself round for coffee.

Otherwise, if you don't feel you can do this, just give the dust time to settle. If things seem just as bad next rehearsal, that's a different matter.

I regularly feel like jacking things in, but apart from the fact the prayer thread won't let me, I always seem to muddle through somehow.

[TheQueenOfQuotes]

The evening service on Sunday there were only a few people left, including me and couple, by the time I left - it would have been very easy for them to talk to me without anyone else listening in.

I'm dreading the practice on Wednesday - but while I just want to jack it all in, you're right I probably would regret it.

[DingdongMaryBonhigh]

It may not prove to be as bad as you fear. At least give it till then. If things haven't improved, then take a fresh look. But don't necessarily jump without a clear idea of what you want to happen. If you do decide to resign, have you got another church in mind, for instance?

[TheQueenOfQuotes]

I don't know about churches, there's one or 2 I wouldn't mind trying - I've been to one or two services at one of them (entirely different style of church and worship though - and not one where I'd be able to contribute to the musical side of things really) but other than that not really - would have to have a look around - but then it would still be awkward as I live so close to my current church.....

[Divvy]

I can send in reinforcements if you like?

Did I not mention I am a sopranos I used to sing at All Saints. The vicar there also likes beer!

My 2 older girls sing also

IDEA We could all do busking in town!!!

[DingdongMaryBonhigh]

You could go along to the practice with the attitude "I've got nothing to lose", and stand your ground (but keep your temper, its like a game, the first to lose their temper loses the game!). You've got your vicar on-side, which is always a huge plus. It would be a shame to move to another parish, no matter how good, if you don't get to play regularly.

[TheQueenOfQuotes]

I suppose you're right Mary - it's just I don't know if I have the energy to stand my ground. Just feeling so fed up at the moment, I have a blue cloud hanging in front of me everywhere I go at the moment....or so it seems

[Divvy]

Can you get involved in music at Croy. school maybe?

Or something at Weav. ?

Keep the church as your place to go on a sunday to worship only? Do your music elsewhere?

[TheQueenOfQuotes]

Weav........are you kidding - the closest I get to that school is walking up to get DS3 weighed (and have coffee ).

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable going there just to worship - I'd have to find another church to worship at as it would just be weird not being involved, and trying to avoid people that I'm having/had issues with

[Divvy]

What about teaching piano? Extra cash too!

I do know that wea have started charging ALOT more per term for lessons now, from £15 to £50 and lots have dropped out.

[TheQueenOfQuotes]

I've tried to do piano teaching once before when DS2 was younger - but it never took off - I'll never get to teach in the schools as I have no "proper" music teaching quals .

As for extra cash - yes that's always useful.....although did I mention - I've bought a new jacket - (weak )

[Divvy]

You found one, in chavtown then?

[Divvy]

You are still young enough to go get some quals surely?

[TheQueenOfQuotes]

yes in Chav town!!

Young enough maybe - but enough money or time??? Definitely not

[DingdongMaryBonhigh]

I'd LOVE to learn to play the piano.

As for not having the strength, if you can state your position without losing your temper, and just keep saying "I'm not going to argue with you, but this is the way its going to be, my way", and stuff like "I have the full support of the vicar", and "I am the Director of Music, not you", then you stand every chance of facing down this bully. You have right on yourside, he is the one having to argue from a weak position.

I know sometimes the effort doesn't seem worth it, but it IS worth it, you just have to find the strength. And thats only if it hasn't been sorted out, if it HAS been sorted, then you've nothing to worry about!

Does the Vicar usually attend practices? Maybe you could get her along, to make sure it goes OK.

[TheQueenOfQuotes]

I just don't know if I have the bottle to say those things outloud .

Vicar doesn't usually attend practices no - awkward timing for her usually

[DingdongMaryBonhigh]

I know exactly what you mean, I hate confrontation too. I'd hate to see you stop doing something you loved though. Is there anyone you could practise on?

[TheQueenOfQuotes]

ermmm DH......... - I'm sure he'd be willing but I'd just laugh instead of being serious.