Evangelical church made me uncomfortable

[Grace212]

Hi all
I just wondered if anyone could relate to this experience.

Some friends had their baby baptised last week. I am not a believer but I have found churches comforting and often pop to St Martins during the week when I need headspace from work.

I don't know much about anything, but when I got the invitation I was surprised to see the type of church it was as the friends in question have never tried to "convert" anyone that I know of.

anyway, I thought I would just keep an open mind and went along expecting it to be quite nice.

but something about it - it's still bugging me. something about it made me feel very uncomfortable. Some people were being confirmed in the same service, their speeches were quite overwhelmingly OTT.

when there was bread and wine - which I can't do obvs - there were ushers or something trying to get those of us who were still seated to go up.

Overwhelming it just felt like claiming love for Jesus and not much else. I was seated with an elderly relative of the friends; she kept asking me "what's going on" and said afterwards that it didn't seem anything like the church services she is used to.

it felt very noisy - vicar played guitar - and dramatic.

to be clear, I have no interest in this because none of it is for me anyway. But I went past it today while running errands, someone was outside - a church worker I guess - and asking people in for tea. And she recognised me and I felt in a hurry to get away.

A strong sense of unease....also I hope this doesn't offend anyone but I think they run the Alpha course and years ago, I had a friend whose mother did the Alpha course and it caused a lot of issues in their relationship, so my friend is very anti Alpha, though I tend to take the view that most people worship in a personal way.

I just wondered what others thought. Googling suggests this kind of church is very popular. interested to hear views.

[LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD]

Horses for courses I suppose.

[Sunshine1235]

There are lots of different types of church and lots of different types of people who go to them. I used to be part of an evangelical church that was very full on, many people there have genuine faith and very strongly believe what they preach which I think is admirable but it can also be very overwhelming and intense for visitors. Ultimately I left the church I was at because I found it too much hype and not enough depth but that was just my experience of one church. Maybe talk to your friends about it and ask them why they find that kind of church the right fit for them?

(Also those kind of churches often seem to have quite a low emphasis on the communion and so they’re not that fussed whether you can or can’t receive they probably just wanted you to feel included)

[Ladymargarethall]

High Anglican churches make me feel uncomfortable. DD and I took my mother to a service once and we were the ones whispering 'What's going on' as everyone seemed to know what to do except us. DM knew the right pages in the book, when to stand up and sit down, and at one point the whole congregation (including DM) turned as one in a different direction.
The thing is OP a lot of it is what you are used to.

[newtlover]

just think of yourself as an anthropologist
people's cultures and beliefs are fascinating

[NannyR]

It sounds quite similar to the church I go to, we run alpha courses but so do many other types of churches - both modern, informal worship type churches and more high, formal churches.
The ushers are there at communion to help keep order, so there isn't a big queue and those who want to take communion go up row by row.
We have modern music as well as more traditional hymns, guitars, drums, piano, violins. Both the vicar and the curate play guitar and lead worship.
Our congregation is all ages and nationalities, everyone is welcome, we don't mind if children find it difficult to stay still or quiet.
The lady who recognised you was probably just being friendly, she wasn't going to drag you in off the street!
At the end of the day, if you don't believe, you've no need to go back there if it's not somewhere you feel comfortable being.

[stucknoue]

I'm not keen either on evangelical churches, I don't agree with a lot of their teaching, nor like the style of worship. Give me the organ, a robed choir and evensong any day. The worst thing about them is the lack of tolerance for people who are gay etc. we have a lot of people at our church who have come from such churches and were amazed that we welcome everyone including those with alternative lifestyles, those with no faith at all (who just love music), we've got ex Jews, ex Muslims, ex Hindus and plenty of lonely people. We are all human, we all deserve tolerance

[Grace212]

"The lady who recognised you was probably just being friendly, she wasn't going to drag you in off the street!"

I'm actually not convinced. There's a paved area in front of the church - she was outside the church door and actually came out along the paved bit saying "oh, I recognise you! Come and have tea"!

I think that's helped me to articulate what made me uncomfortable - I feel as if they were wanting to leap on people to convert them.

Are they anti-gay?

tbh I'm not a fan of the word "tolerance" - it just says "putting up with something because you have to".

I think this explains why I felt uncomfortable - something about that group felt very wrong.

I don't have an issue with the music not being organ music etc etc, some of the singers were excellent. There was just something very odd in the atmosphere that bothered me.

re going up for communion in rows - no, this was more like a couple of ushers making "encouraging" gestures so people would go, and looking quite frustrated when a few of us shook our head.

then they came round for anyone who might have mobility issues, and that also was quite aggressive in that they were sort of eyebrow raising at anyone who they didn't think had an issue. I had to shake my head quite firmly before the usher stopped looking at me.

[Grace212]

"very strongly believe what they preach which I think is admirable but it can also be very overwhelming and intense for visitors"

yes. that pissed me off tbh, I am introverted and found it very stressful and really wished I hadn't gone. My friends know I am introverted and I would have thought would guess this would be quite an unpleasant experience for me. so no, I don't have to go back, but perhaps I am sensing a worry about what the friends are really like.

[MaybeDoctor]

A close and very dear friend of mine is involved in a large evangelical church.

On the outside it looks very modern: pop/rock style singing, food, hospitality and modern buildings.

Probe a little deeper and problematic areas include:

• Anti-homosexuality
  
• Preaching about damnation for anyone who does not believe
  
• No women in senior leadership roles
  
• Women are there to help and support male spouses/leaders
  
• Tithing the congregation for a percentage of income
  

I find it quite difficult and just have to avoid getting drawn into debate.

You are right to listen to your instincts.

[Grace212]

now I'm googling and I'm quite concerned

my best friend is gay

have I accidentally made friends with secret homophobes?!

I had a bad experience, I would say, with a former colleague who was a JW. My dad died last year and I had kept in touch with the JW colleague who was a lovely person - or so I thought.

first time she heard me in a state of - well you know the kind of panicky bit of grief? - she sent me some information about joining the JWs. I have not spoken with her again, I feel she was taking advantage at the worst possible time.

so now I am seeing these friends in a different light after going to their church.

[Fink]

Alpha depends a lot on the people running it from church to church, so I wouldn't write it off as awful just because your friend's had a bad experience with it. I, personally, don't like Alpha much as a course, but I don't believe that it systematically causes problems within families, that would be quite a lot more down to the individual church running it. As a pp said, Alpha is offered in a whole load of different churches across the spectrum of worship styles and beliefs.

I guess it depends what you mean by anti-gay. Again, there's a wide spectrum from 'inclusive' churches who make a point of welcoming people of different sexual identities and affirming them in that, to the hard-core gay conversion therapy types. But there's such a wide space in the middle - churches who don't believe in gay marriage but welcome gay parishioners, churches who welcome gay parishioners as long as they're celibate (same as unmarried straight parishioners), churches who pretty much operate a don't ask don't tell policy ... it's hard to tell what your friends believe about gay people just based on their broad churchmanship.

Why don't you talk to your friends about what they believe? If it's the friendship you're concerned about rather than the church, it would be more useful to know their personal beliefs, surely? They may have some divergence from those of their church (you don't even know how committed they are to that church), or they may be able to explain it to you so that you see how it makes sense for them.

[SuperLoudPoppingAction]

Aren't there books linked to the alpha course that are homophobic?
I realize the tone must change from church to church (I'm very conservative in style of worship but am, myself, a gay) but I had the impression the source material was quite problematic. Not the main text but books you're encouraged to read further on.

[Fink]

SuperLoudPoppingAction I've been on the leadership team for an Alpha course and I didn't even know there was a recommended reading list. We've certainly never used one (and I wouldn't recommend most of the things that come from Alpha anyway). I guess that just reaffirms my point that it varies greatly from setting to setting. Even when we use the videos from Alpha, the talks we give in between reflect our own church's theology, not an official Alpha line.

[SuperLoudPoppingAction]

There used to be a manual called 'searching issues' that was almost like an faq of what guests might ask and also a book of the same name which went into more detail.

[SuperLoudPoppingAction]

Many (‘guests’) are still a long way off (a real experience of God) when they began Alpha. Some are convinced atheists, some are New Agers, some are adherents to other religions or cults. Many are living lifestyles which are far from Christian. Some are alcoholics, others are compulsive gamblers, many are living with partners to whom they are not married and some are homosexual in lifestyle. (Gumbel, 2000 Gumbel, N. 2000. Searching issues, Eastbourne: Kingsway.
[Google Scholar]
, p. 26)
From www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13617670500371933 (hope that works - I removed the name of my institution from the link)

I don't mean to argue it's the only source of those kinds of opinions by any means

[Roomba]

I've had similar experiences and feelings when I've attended Evangelical services. However, the most uncomfortable I felt was at a supposedly Methodist church - no idea if there's such a thing as 'Evangelical Methodists' but that's how it felt. I was pounced on by multiple smiling parishioners and it felt like they were trying to smother me with niceness (similar vibe to the Mormons who accost me and race about how ecstatic they are in their mission).

I'm an atheist now but grew up attending Methodist services with my grandparents. Back then it was all very simple and sparse, no folk bands playing songs and 'pastors' instead of the vicar. My grandfather would be horrified at how 'happy clappy' (his words not mine!) and 'American' its all become... Also used to attend High Anglican services occasionally with my mother and much prefer that traditional style of worship to the pastor preaching about God saving him from addiction and playing the guitar. I'm sure that style of church feels far more welcoming to many than the 'old fashioned' style though, so yeah, horses for courses!

[donquixotedelamancha]

I tend to agree with you. I think what you are discomforted by is the conformity of thought, emphasis on feelings and social pressure to join in.

I remember going to my first evangelical worship and being surprised when they all started doing a Nazi salute during the hymns. Of course it was just 'spontaneously' waving hands to show they felt the spirit.

Some friends of ours teens were being baptised after an Alpha course last year. The Testimony of these young kids set my teeth on edge a bit. Plus I was treated to some of the parishioners Views on Catholics over sandwiches, which was nice.

[Grace212]

thanks all, interesting to hear experiences.

I'm also a bit curious because after dad died, mum could do with more support - she lives about 90 mins away from me and a lot of her friends are too old to help with much anyway.

so I had thought about taking her to the only church she has nearby but I've just been looking at their website and while they don't describe themselves as evangelical, the style of the photos is a lot like what I experienced at my friends' church.

perhaps it's just a modern way that I'm not keen on

[donquixotedelamancha]

no idea if there's such a thing as 'Evangelical Methodists' but that's how it felt.

All the Methodists I once knew made the CofE look hard line, but they spoke in hushed tones of the 'other' type of Methodist. I got the impression that Evangelical Methodists are very much a thing.

[Grace212]

xpost with Don

OMD that's terrifying!!

[villageshop]

I've heard they stir up fervour in the final stage of the alpha course, whipping people (not literally) into speaking in tongues and spontaneous 'healings'. I think it preys on the vulnerable.

[newtlover]

there are primitive methodists, I've heard of them- maybe they're evangelical?

[ZenNudist]

A church isnt a hive mind. People are able to hold different opinions. Seems really bigoted to jump to thinking your friends are homophobic just because they worship in an evangelical church. Why dont you ask them more about it?

My cousin is 'happy clappy' (sorry thats my dad's term for her, hes an uncharitable Catholic). Anyway her wedding was quite OTT and I couldn't take all their hand raising, laying on of hands, breathless prayers to "fathergod" banging on about mission etc. Now I think its good some people can have an ecstatic relationship with God. I dont reckon thats always the way and I wonder how those not experiencing the connection take it. It must feel quite excluding.

Im not keen on evangelism but I admire their zeal and drive to do something. Especially for those living their faith and actively trying to help people.

[CraftyGin]

What would please you in a church experience, OP?

[Grace212]

Crafty I think I'd be looking for a sense of calm. The weddings and christenings I've been to before have been like that.

there was an underlying note of hysteria in this service.