Sex/relationship issues

[hrrap]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post because it's about a few different topics:
I'm a bit mixed up about my faith, sex and relationships and I don't know how to untangle it and would appreciate some advice.

I had a very religious upbringing, I still go to church, but have been absolutely full of doubt for years. Honestly can't say if I believe in God anymore, but would love to get back what I once had so keep trying different things.

I'm also divorced, in a religion that's not ok with divorce/remarriage. Excellent.

But I am struggling with the thought of never having sex or a relationship again. Mainly the sex part, tbh. Masturbation also a sin in my religion so I alternate between frustration and shame about that.

Complication is that I experienced sexual abuse in childhood and then also in my marriage (which was abusive in several ways, hence the divorce). So a fair bit of shame and trauma around sex and I don't trust my instincts about it.

I'm questioning whether I ever really had a real faith, or whether the religion was simply useful to me because it allowed me to not have sex until I got married, and to marry someone who respected my bodily autonomy (not so successful on the latter). And has been a similar safety barrier against sex/relationships for the years since my divorce. So am I trying to recapture something that was never really there? Or am I just questioning my faith because I'm now so frustrated I can't even see straight and I want to be able to get out of all the rules?

I'm a bit stuck. It feels like I need to either explore my faith with more energy or start thinking about dating, but can't do both because of the rules about sex/divorce/remarriage. I'm not asking which I should do; rather how to approach thinking about this.

[scottishdiem]

I am sorry for the hardships that you have face and continue to have to deal with. I think you need some counselling and support to deal with all that - definitely from a secular source as religious ones tend to be very biased. You cannot deal with your future without dealing with aspects of your past (which sounds trite but has an element of truth).

Consider the two questions - what is it about your faith that is important to you. Merely having one doesnt help. It has to mean something to you for you to then give aspects of your life to it (e.g. no more sex). And what is important about a relationship and intimacy that is important to you that means your faith would have to take a lesser role for you.

Seek guidance from inside and outside your faith for answers to these questions. Both will be biased to a greater or lesser extent but it does help to get other perspectives.

What would your life mean to you if you never engaged with your faith again? What would your life mean to you if you never engaged in intimacy with another person ever again. Both can be fulfilling I suppose but only you can decide.

Can you move down the scale of faith? Is there an alternative for you? There are groups in most denominations and faith groups that provide support people who believe but cant live a full life following all the rules. Seek support from people in a similar place to help you decide.

[hrrap]

Thank you @scottishdiem - that was kind of you to take the time.

I've recently self-referred for counseling for the childhood abuse, but there's a waiting list of 1-2 years so I'm having a bash at unpicking it myself in the meantime.

I need to have a good think about what it is I want from a faith or a relationship. I think they might be similar: love, and acceptance, for starters.

I know loads of people in my church privately don't really pay much attention to the teachings about sex. So there is room for that. And I think lots of the teachings about sex, e.g. about contraception and homosexuality, are cruel and nonsensical. And I absolutely don't think bad of anyone who's divorced/remarried/having sex outside marriage. But I cannot make myself feel the same about my own choices. I'm not sure why.

[WiseOldElfIsNick]

Sadly, it sounds like you have been severely repressed by your religion. Why should anyone have any say over who you sleep with or how many times you marry. My honest suggestion would be to get away from the religion if you can, it's clearly not helping you.

That might be easier said than done, of course. But if it's the acceptance in a group setting that you get from your religion, perhaps you should seek out a secular social group or perhaps a group which supports individuals getting over their religion which could help you re-integrate.

[Jason118]

Wise words indeed

[Fink]

It seems to be your bad experiences of sex (childhood abuse, abuse in marriage) which are causing your troubles rather than the church's view on sex. Anyone, of any faith, who has been through those experiences would have trauma and ongoing issues.

If you can't get counselling quickly, have you thought about what support networks might be available within the church? I don't mean go and tell the parish priest [/pastor/vicar ...] all your frustrations about masturbation etc. But, for example, in the Catholic Church we have Marriage Care (who, despite the name, also offer counselling to people on their own), and each diocese have nominated mental health people who will help you to find support in your local area. If none of that appealed then there are things like Theology of the Body classes, which wouldn't help you to get over your personal past experiences (I really do think proper counselling is what you need) but would help to give you a more positive, healthy picture of sex in general.

Do you understand the theology behind why your church has the teachings it does on these issues or is it just a load of rules? Maybe if you looked into the reason behind the teachings it would make it easier to decide if you do actually agree or not.

[Babdoc]

Not all churches are the same. My own (Church of Scotland) is fine with remarriage of divorcees, for example. We work from the basic doctrine that God loves us, however flawed we may be, and however many times we mess things up.
You sound as though your view of religion is all tangled up in rules and regulations, rather than about you having a personal loving relationship with God.
Try going back to basics. Be still in prayer and let God’s love support and nourish you. Let Him help with healing your past abuse and pain.
And of course see a human counsellor too - God works indirectly through people just as much as in personal experiences of His presence.
Maybe you are about to start on an amazing journey of exploration - towards genuine faith, and a loving happy future with a caring partner.
That is my prayer for you, anyway!
Good luck, OP, and God bless.

[speakout]

Religion is obsessed with sex.

It needs to take its dirty little snout out of things that shouldn't concern.

[WiseOldElfIsNick]

Be still in prayer and let God’s love support and nourish you. Let Him help with healing your past abuse and pain.

That's really not helpful is it? What is that really supposed to achieve and what does it even mean?

And of course see a human counsellor too

Because god's not able to do this alone?

God works indirectly through people just as much as in personal experiences of His presence.

Oh, of course, that old chestnut. How about giving people credit for their help rather than pretending that god's behind it? Honestly, it's an insult to the amazing individuals in this world who dedicate their lives to helping people with problems to turn around and say that it was all god's work.

[hrrap]

Thanks everyone for your different perspectives.

I'm sorry I'm a terrible advert for religion: I have all the rules but no relationship with God for context. So I can understand the quite different responses my op provoked. I know that’s not the way it should be and I know religion is a much more positive thing for lots of people.

@Babdoc thanks for the prayer🙂 And you’re absolutely right when you say I don’t have a personal loving relationship with God. And that I guess is the root of my problem: the lack of relationship with God and therefore my resentment at what I see as restrictions, but also my fear of jettisoning the structure (rules) and being left with nothing. Plus I have the worry that deliberately choosing to sin (as I’ve been taught) might further distance me from God. (A god I’m not even sure I believe in...)

@Fink I've just now had an initial look at what Theology of the Body is about and that looks like a good place to start. I assumed I have an ok understanding of the theology behind the rules but I should make sure of that and also it’s tricky to rest it on my very, very shaky faith. No Marriage Care near me, and unfortunately I had a pretty disappointing marriage counsellor through the church so I’d be a bit wary I think. I do confess this stuff in confession when absolutely necessary but that is beyond excruciating (that in itself is motivation to sort out my views on all of this). A good bit of reading would be a good start.

@GoldenEvilHoor I'm sorry you've got stuff to work through but glad you've found someone to do that with. Thanks for the advice I’ll look into other organisations to see if I can speed things up. Feels quite difficult now I’ve lifted the lid on stuff. I can’t hang about feeling like this for a year or two.

[Jason118]

I think it's important that whatever route you take to find some peace, try sharing the burden with experts/counsellors. I know from experience that once shared with a supportive audience, it does lesson the feelings of isolation and that can be a huge benefit. Good luck.

[hrrap]

Thanks @Jason118 I think you're right. I've just also self-referred for some generic counselling (I hope it will come round quicker than the 1-2 years).

[noego]

So sorry to hear about your dilemma. God did not create you to be unhappy or confused. Religious dogma has done that to you. Do not seek outside of yourself for the answers you seek, but look within to discover your true self.

[hrrap]

@noego What, like, with a mirror?😳

Seriously, that would be brilliant but the problem is that looking inside myself isn't working - I've been trying for years and hit a wall. I recognise that I'm so messed up about all of this stuff that I can't trust myself. (This lack of trust is possibly a side-effect of being so long in an abusive relationship too.)

So my plan is to get counselling to try to unpick the abuse, and also try to speak to someone about the God side of things (someone recommended by a lovely mnetter). Could all take a bit of time though.

[Vitalogy]

I'm sure noego will be back with some wise words.

I hope your counselling appointment comes through soon OP.

Can you spend as much time as possible being quiet and still. To try and quieten the mind, I know easier said than done. Best wishes.

[noego]

You say in your OP that counselling might take up to a year. If that is the case perhaps a mindfulness/meditation course may help you understand the intrusive negative thoughts you are experiencing and help you look within to discover the truth of your being-ness.
Your confusion about sexuality and relationships has been imprinted on you from religious dogma and or cultural dogma. It has all been programmed into you from the beliefs of others. It seems that you are now questioning that programming and conditioning. The answer will not be found from those that believe in dogmatic systems. It is something you have to discover and experience for yourself. In my experience this can only be done by dropping all human constructed conceptual ideologies.

[VanGoghsLeftEar]

I’ll come straight out with it and say I’m an atheist. I grew up in the CofE but there wasn’t much reinforcement of it at home, and eventually I let it go.

I would look upon the Bible as a guidebook. You may not or cannot follow it exactly. I read a bit of philosophy and though I find it interesting I don’t follow it all through.

Also, let go. I know it’s hard, but you are not a bad Christian or a bad person. You are human. Humans are complex. Humans have natural urges, they have sex, they explore themselves, and that’s normal. But you are not bad, or failing, or not pleasing God. You are living life the best way you know how, and you are doing brilliantly.

[MissConductUS]

I grew up in a very restrictive, dogmatic Roman Catholic church. I found it so toxic that I eventually just washed my hands of it completely in my 20's, which my family wasn't pleased with but made me much happier.

I eventually found a much more tolerant, less dogmatic, more accepting Protestant denomination that gave me all of the spirituality and none of the guilt and remorse. You might do better if you can accept that you were burdened with a load of shite when you were brought up in your faith that isn't really central or relevant to modern life.

[Babdoc]

MissConductUS, I agree with you that there is a big difference between the various sects of Christianity. I think the problems started when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire - at that point, the teachings of Jesus, ( the love and humility, the personal relationship with a loving God), got drowned out by patriarchal power structure. Men became bishops or priests for reasons of power and control, and personal gain, rather than through any wish to serve God or people as a servant.
Sadly, a lot of modern people (particularly critical atheists, but also some believers) have lost sight of Jesus's message of love, and ONLY see the rules, regulations, dogma, and abuses of power (eg child abuse by priests). They then reject faith altogether, rather than reforming the abuses and cutting through the power structures to see the living and loving God who was there all along, and who willingly suffered torture and death at humanity's hands, out of that overwhelming love for His creation.

[WiseOldElfIsNick]

Sadly, a lot of modern people (particularly critical atheists, but also some believers) have lost sight of Jesus's message of love, and ONLY see the rules, regulations, dogma, and abuses of power (eg child abuse by priests).

I can't speak for all atheists, but I think you've misunderstood the position. Certainly from my perspective, I don't reject faith because of the rules, regulations, dogma and abuses of power in religion. I reject faith because it is useless to me to believe in something I have no evidence for. The fact that there are all these issues within religions themselves certainly strengthens my belief that organised religion is, on balance, damaging to society. But this has nothing to do with whether I believe in a god.

They then reject faith altogether, rather than reforming the abuses and cutting through the power structures to see the living and loving God who was there all along, and who willingly suffered torture and death at humanity's hands, out of that overwhelming love for His creation.

How could God have suffered death? The fact the story suggests Jesus was resurrected is enough to confirm that he didn't really sacrifice anything.