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AIBU to think we need more ^inclusive^ education?

(638 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

LoveFoolMe Wed 27-Jan-16 18:58:03

AIBU to think we need more inclusive education? If children in a multicultural society such as the UK are educated together surely this promotes more tolerance and better mutual understanding.

So these proposals worry me:

Call to end limit on religious free schools

Considering how divisive and rigid religious attitudes can be, I think it's time to bring children from faith schools into mainstream schools and to encourage these children to mix with more diverse cultures.

Secular schools can still provide fact-based religious education in the classroom and would probably teach their students about a greater range of religions than a faith school would. Parents could, of course, provide a more personal approach to religion for their children outside of school hours if they wanted to.

Let's not further segregate our children by religion.

AIBU to think that reducing (rather than increasing) the number of faith schools in the UK would be far better for our children and far better for our society?

coffeeisnectar Wed 27-Jan-16 19:03:11

I have always felt dividing children by faith rather odd.

Religion should be taught by the family/place of worship if it's that important.

WMittens Wed 27-Jan-16 19:05:33

I agree, but I imagine religious parents would disagree, and the thing about religious people is they're generally closed-minded when it comes to their religion (it's almost mandatory, and in some cases, is). Open-minded people who question faith-based institutions generally aren't welcomed.

Yseulte Wed 27-Jan-16 19:08:06

I'm totally anti-faith schools.

I think everyone should learn comparative religion/philosophy at schools where all races and religions are mixed.

I think the proliferation of them is a step backwards both in academic terms and also in terms multicultural understanding and cohesion.

LoveFoolMe Wed 27-Jan-16 19:08:22

I can understand why faith schools have been set up in the past but I can't understand why anyone thinks they're a good idea now. They're hardly going to help develop a more cohesive society.

LoveFoolMe Wed 27-Jan-16 19:09:14

Comparative religion/philosophy would be great Yseulte.

Lurkedforever1 Wed 27-Jan-16 19:12:25

I don't object to church schools in theory. Providing all religious criteria for entrance was scrapped, so entry was the same as anywhere else.

As far as inclusion goes, it bothers me far more we have a system that mostly offers education based on the area you live in.

IceBeing Wed 27-Jan-16 19:13:28

Totally against faith schools here too.

Why it is considered okay to discriminate against children according to their parents (not the childrens) religion?

Why on earth should schools be exempt from the equalities act?

shivermytimbers Wed 27-Jan-16 19:16:18

Just playing devil's advocate, but do you think that putting children of all faiths or none in the same classroom necessarily leads to an inclusive educational setting? The current government push of the Prevent strategy seems to have needlessly targeted some children from Muslim families who may now be feeling anything but welcome and included. Some families might feel that their children are better valued and accepted in a setting where they aren't under suspicion.

Claraoswald36 Wed 27-Jan-16 19:24:47

I very much object to more faith schools. We are failing our children with them already. Every child deserves a secular education of the same standard.
I also think the parents current right to take their kids out of sex Ed or anything else they have some absurd objection to should be removed. Actually I think any cultural rights to miss lessons should be unlawful. But that's just my opinion. I'm very happy with my dds secular academy it's fab.

BertrandRussell Wed 27-Jan-16 19:29:09

I think if faith schools continue, parents who choose a faith school should not be allowed to apply to non faith schools as well. That would be perfectly fair, and would stop the ridiculous situation we have now, where people of faith have a choice of a third more schools than people without.

CurlyhairedAssassin Wed 27-Jan-16 19:30:44

I am anti-faith schools for the reasons already listed. They have no place in modern society. The fact we have them is due to historical circumstances, when the first schools were started by churches or charitable organisations often affiliated with certain religions.

You pay your tax, you should be not excluded from sending your child to the nearest publically-funded school.

You are serious about wanting your child educating in the religion of your choice? surely if you attend your church as a family they will be getting all the religious teaching they need. Especially if it's practised at home. There are such things as Sunday schools too.

Maybe churches fight to keep faith schools because they know that half the congregation would disappear once itMs no longer a necessity to provide evidence to faith schools of how devout you are. hmm

It's an absolute nonsense. I work in a faith school (keep my views to myself) but I always laugh inwardly at the amount of pupils who tell me that they don't believe in God at all (even though they are baptised).

Honestly, what's it all about? we're living in the past.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid Wed 27-Jan-16 19:34:18

Another one here who doesn't agree with faith schools.

One if the reasons we bought a house where we did was the fact that the local schools weren't church schools.

CrazyLoopholeInTimeAndSpace Wed 27-Jan-16 19:35:47

Shiver, I do see your point.

Broadly though, I agree in a reduction of faith schools.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid Wed 27-Jan-16 19:36:01

curly Maybe churches fight to keep faith schools because they know that half the congregation would disappear once itMs no longer a necessity to provide evidence to faith schools of how devout you are

I think you are right about that

StrawberryDelight Wed 27-Jan-16 19:37:11

Why it is considered okay to discriminate against children according to their parents (not the childrens) religion?

We discriminate against children based on their parents wealth. Not as many people seem to have an issue wiry that hmm

If you are aiming to abolish religious schools, you should be aiming for the same thing for private IMO.

BoGrainger Wed 27-Jan-16 19:44:20

Agree with Bert. Or faith schools can only select 50% on faith, 50% on distance and you can only apply under one of the criteria.

Andrewofgg Wed 27-Jan-16 19:50:02

StrawberryDelight The European Court of Human Rights decided decades ago (in a case from Belgium) that no State can abolish private schools.

As for religious schools, I would say: no new ones. Existing ones (if coeducational which many are not) to offer the same syllabus to girls and boys. I don't think we can go any further than that.

wintersocks Wed 27-Jan-16 19:51:19

YANBU I don't think there should be faith schools at all

Lurkedforever1 Wed 27-Jan-16 19:52:59

strawberry About 6-7% are educated privately. The bigger inequality is a state system that discriminates on parents wealth. Paying school fees is far more honest than buying into catchment. And doesn't deprive less wealthy kids from actual choice in the state system.

Buddhabuddha Wed 27-Jan-16 19:55:05

YANBU I have always found the segregation of faith schools odd, it would be interesting to see how church numbers are if changes are made...

Andrewofgg Wed 27-Jan-16 19:58:36

Lurkedforever1 How are you going to cure "buying into catchment" in a society where people can buy a house where they can afford it?

If it were still my issue (which it has not been for a long time) I would want my DS to school sufficiently locally for him to be able to form out-of-school friendships with the boys he meets, which is only possible if they all live within a reasonable distance.

meditrina Wed 27-Jan-16 20:00:41

Buy out the faith schools' property interests.

Abolish all forms of selection.

Remove parental right to express a preference.

Mandatory age-appropriate fair band testing for all seeking schools places.

Bureaucrats assign places to ensure all schools have a suitably balanced community.

Bussing to be introduced, as longer distances will be necessary for some to ensure the right mix.

Anything sort of that just moves the perceived unfairnesses elsewhere (most invidiously by house price)

Andrewofgg Wed 27-Jan-16 20:03:14

meditrina Fine if you regard children as the property of the State.

meditrina Wed 27-Jan-16 20:08:50

Is there any other way to achieve the inclusive education of the thread title?

(and it was a pesky Thatcherite policy that brought in all this preference malarkey)

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