Atheists and Accountability

[whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday]

Hi

My MIL is an athetist and I've had atheist friends in the past. They are the most morally corrupt people I've ever met.

People who believe in God or some form of higher being and an ultimate judgement day or reward (even through reincarnation) live by a certain set of rules e.g. 10 commandments. In a way it makes you aware of a higher being or that you will eventually be held accountible for your actions and should (in an ideal world) stop you doing bad things.

People like my MIL sleep around and do whatever they please regardless of who they hurt or how immoral the act is. As long as she's not breaking any laws of the land (and adultery is not one of them) she thinks it's fine to get away with it. Because she doesn't believe in God, she believes that she has in fact "got away with it".

What are your opinions on this? How do atheists enusre they don't do bad things? Whih set of rules/principles do you follow?

[prettybird]

Easy: treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself. If anytihn, I have an excessive sense of "fairness" and get genuinely upset that other people can't see the impact of what they are doing - or if they are being selfish.

I was brought up with a strong moral code - not a religious one, but you don't need religion to know right from wrong.

[Twiglett]

what a pile of shite

So because you're scared of an 'external force' you are good .. that says absolutely nothing for your set of moral values nor your integrity

instead it speaks of fear of revenge / punishment for wrongdoing putting the necessity of choosing to do good for humanity/society's sake in the hands of a higher forces' set of values

and is inherently a weak and morally corrupt standpoint if you ask me

[Twiglett]

How do atheists ensure they don't do bad things?

By having a value system and an inner morality and integrity and developing empathy for fellow man

[Parsnipillon]

Has your MIL upset you, apart from adultury recently?

Religions have shown that rules often get broken and morals are one thing, belief in a deity imo is another ball game altogether.

Without typing all day and neglecting my kids, my morals reflect peace, love and being nice, seems to keep me out of trouble

[maretta]

Agree with Twiglett.

There are also plenty of religious people who do 'bad' things.

[satine]

Ha ha ha ha! Can't really better Twiglett's "What a pile of shite" comment.

But I can't resist - so to extrapolate your argument, all those who do believe in a God are honest, trustworthy people who never put a foot wrong?

Either you're a big troll, in which case this wasn't the most subtle argument starter I've ever seen, or you actually believe this, which is amazing.

[satine]

Anyway, I haven't got time to be typing away all afternoon, I'm off for some moral corruption in Marks & Spencer.

[Parsnipillon]

Poster last seen by me on Xenia thread. Does not seem like a troll to me, but perhaps I have too much empathy

[Iklboo]

I'm atheist. I'm not corrupt. Don't tar us all with the same brush as your MIL.
FYI (actually I hate that expression, but never mind) some of the people I know who HAVE a religion are far worse - becuase they think all they need to do is go to confession and that's alright then (that's a direct quote from a friend).

I am suspecting major trollism with this one

Oh - and your generalised "judgement" of atheists is a pretty bad thing in itself. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

[Iklboo]

Also - I like the way "thou shalt not kill" doesn't get a mention until number 6 in the Ten Commandments.
That's actually very very high on my atheist list of things it's not very nice to do

[Iklboo]

Would MN HQ let this one go if she'd put a religion was corrupt?

[lemonaid]

Simple -- a combination of "do as you would be done by" and "first do no harm".

I particularly love the fact that according to your argument here the fact that "(in an ideal world)" religious people won't do bad things means that (regardless of whether they actually do or not) they are automatically morally superior to atheists. Quick newsflash... in an ideal world atheists won't do bad things either.

Some religious people believe that they can do whatever they want and repent and they will be forgiven ... or believe that there will soon be a Second Coming and final judgment so messing up the world politically and ecologically for future generations doesn't matter.

I am concerned when these people get into positions of political power and allow their religious beliefs to inform their political policies. I think that as an atheist I am actually more inclined to make moral choices than some of these people, because I believe that no amount of being sorry about it afterwards will truly mitigate the consequences of the choices I make (so I had better be pretty darn sure that they are the right choices) and because I know that what I do will to a greater or lesser extent impact the rest of humanity, my children and the society that they are going to be living in after I'm gone. But I would never consider making a sweeping statement that elevated me morally above all religious people purely on the basis of my belief system.

There are religious people who live morally and religious people who live immorally. There are atheists who live morally and atheists who live immorally. This is how life is and has nothing to do with your MIL or your so-called friends.

[prettybird]

Good point Iklboo.

And I like Twiglett's point too: being prepared "to do the right thing", just becasue it is the right thing and not through fear of a higher power shows a stronger moral code and strength of character.

In my case, it is probably also due to an over developed sense of empathy . Same sense of empathy that makes me get upset watching Laurel and hardy 'cos what is happening to them is just not fair

I judge people by how I find them and by how they treat others - not by their religion. The fact that I happen not to beleieve in god (I actually don't like the term "atheist" as that seems to define me in religious terms, as someone on here once eloquently articulated) is irrelevant.

[whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday]

Thanks Prettybird and Lemonaid for your rational comments.

Twiglett and Iklboo, before jumping on your soapbox and having a rant and accusing someone of trollism, look in the mirror and actually bother to READ the post I wrote!!!!

I was talking specifically about my MIL and friends who are atheists and who are morally corrupt. If I wanted to make a stereotypical judgement on athetists it would have gone something like this......"athetists are.....".

I am genuinely interested in what set of values athetists follow as the ones that I know do not seem to follow any. No-one said that religious people do not do bad things, hence I wrote "in an ideal world".

Some of the values written in response to the post look like some athetists generally follow the 10 commandments? Or is there no uniform rules? Rational responses please-leave your inferiority complex at home!!!

[Blondilocks]

It's like with everything - just because your MIL sleeps around (& did u mean also that she cheats?) it doesn't mean that all atheists do that.

Atheists can still have morals even though they may not necessarily have some spiritual guide to follow.

The 10 commandments just seem to be common sense if you ask me (or from what I remember of them), & also similar to laws that happen to exist. Most people are able to have a grasp of what's right or not - e.g. the 10 commandments don't say, thou shall not punch random people, but most people realise that punching people isn't a very nice thing to do.

[Tinker]

They are the most morally corrupt people I've ever met

What are your opinions on this

I think you're talking bollocks. What an offensive ill-informed generalisation. Methinks you want a fight.

[Pruni]

Message withdrawn

[flack]

Most atheists are not humanists; on the other hand, a lot of atheists would self-identify as humanists if they only knew about it (that's what happened to Linda Smith and why she was BHA president for 2 years before her death).

If you're genuine about wanting to understand more, wtsibt, try the British Humaist Assoc. website.

[Pruni]

Message withdrawn

[PrettyCandles]

I was born and brought up in a faith, and have that same faith now, but went through a period of atheism. My values then were the same as they are now, believing or not in God made no difference. The overriding value has always been integrity. 'Do as you would be done by' also sums it up farily neatly.

[Pruni]

Message withdrawn

[whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday]

Flack, thanks for that link!!!

Blondilocks thanks, but again, I wasn't saying that all atheists are like that.

Pruni, to write a response without having even read the post just shows what a "blinkered, narrow-minded and above all unobservant person you must be!" to fly off the handle before you know whether or not you have a right to....very sensible!!!

Tinker, look up the meaning of the word bollocks, you'll find your name as the definition.

[Pruni]

Message withdrawn

[whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday]

Flack

so at a time of need, how do you find guidance?

[whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday]

Pruni-try growing up!!!