All welcome in Muslim tea room 3!(281 Posts)
Salaam and hello to all.
Thought I would take the liberty of starting a new thread as I didn't get to say Eid Mubarak on the last one and I do like checking in with you all
So come in, pull up a chair and have some lovely biryani - and there's baklava for dessert
Yay you started another thread. I was feeling lost without one even though the last one was going at snail pace!
Will keep popping in to say hello.
Yay another thread! I was panicking slightly when you said you werent going to start the next one Elusive but Squishing has done it for us. Belated Eid mubarak to all those who have posted on the tearoom thread. How was everyones Eid? Subhanallah it seems like it was so long ago but Im sure it was just two weeks ago wasnt it? I was so not in the mood though. Im right at the end of my pregnancy and honestly all I wanted to do was sleep all day. But Alhamdulillah we had a good time.
Have any of you heard about Malala winning the peace prize. I was so proud of her. I think she is a really strong role model for both muslims and non-muslims. She is very humble as well saying she didnt think she deserved it. I watched her interview on cnn.
I was so shocked about her descriptions about what was going on in Swat valley. Those people who did that to her are animals not human beings . Anyway watch the video if you can its very inspiring.
Salaam dear sisters
I've taken a massive break from mn and deregistered, but I wanted to come back and say hello to you all.
I've just caught up with the thread, I'm glad you've all kept it going.
Elusive, I got goosebumps reading your posts from last month. Subhanallah. I'm so pleased your prayers were answered
Peaceful, can't be long left now until baby
unpeaceful makes it's appearance? Hope you're holding up ok
Crescent, how are you? Are you dc settling back into school ok?
Squishing, nice to meet you and thanks for starting this thread up
Fuzzy, hope you and your girls are keeping well.
And everyone else, sorry they were just the people who posted on the last few pages .
I'm not sure who of you will remember, but I started posting nearly 2 years ago when my fil passed away. If you remember that, you'll remember all the stuff that went on with my husband and how much of a shit he has been to me over the years.
Well after 8 years the abusive tw*t has gone. I've been trying for a long time to get rid of him, and my prayers were answered when he was made to leave. It wasn't pretty and the police have been involved but alhamdullilah we're free.
I was unsure as to how my in laws would react and was prepared for a backlash in every way, but my goodness they have been brilliant. They are supporting me 100% and have told me I did the right thing and they're glad I've got rid of him. I haven't spoken to him for nearly 6 weeks, I'm not allowed to.
It has been the best 6 weeks! My house is tranquil again and we're all so much happier.
I also don't know if you'll remember but dd2 was having some problems. It's looking very likely she's autistic, she also has a sensory processing disorder which is very severe (so the paed said). So my beautiful girl has got a long hard life ahead of her, but inshaallah she'll be ok.
She's hard work and not settling into school, she started in reception 6 weeks ago and is still finding it tough.
So that's my long update, I'll hope to be around a bit more now my head is clear and I've got my life back .
Salaam and Eid Mubarek. Glad to see tearoom number 3 (make mine a turkish coffee), even though I'm rubbish at contributing I like to know it's here!
Cross posted with you last night Lost, alhamdulillah that your situation has changed, and may Allah grant your little girl a long and happy life despite her difficulties.
Hope everyone is fine.
Lost sis, I am sorry to hear about your difficulties with your now ex, but glad that you are now happy and in peace. Oh and you have amazing in-laws mashallah, i pray that they stay nice! inshallah . Your FIL was lovely too, may Allah reward him with a wonderful hereafter.
I remember you mentioned your DD's sensory issues in an earlier post. Don't have much experience or knowledge of autism but glad that you have a diagnosis. Will make dua that Allah makes it easy for you and your gorgeous dd. As for practical support, I know they have boards on MN where you can post about autism and get very good support by mothers in similar situation. I will do the dua bit for you both.
Ok, it's crazy late.
Salams Lost, MrsAtticus
Glad to see you back and in good spirits. Lost Im so happy to hear that you have finally managed to get rid of your abusive hopefully soon to be XH. Inshallah I pray that Allah continues to make it easy for you with your in-laws and continues to keep your household peaceful and happy. What is wrong with these men, that they think it is acceptable to behave like this? You know I have one ds and I am always terrified about what I am going to end up sending out in to the world.
Your H to a certain extent sounds a bit like my brother who thankfully is not married and has no children (may it stay that way for some time) and I can see how he ended up the way he is through overindulgence and to a certain extent neglect. In my community people are always alot more concerned with the upbringing of their daughters then they are of their sons which means whilst they carefully think about how they parent their girls with boys its almost a laissez faire attitude. They will be fine. I once had a conversation with a taxi driver from a muslim country who was telling me how he was terrified about his daughter growing up here in the Uk and wanted to send her back to his country to be educated (daughter was only 3 btw ) then later on in the conversation he dropped the bombshell that he actually has two sons (one older then her and already in school) but you would never have thought that with all his angst about his daughter.
Im not saying it is always parent's fault but particularly in some muslim communities you do see that difference in the way girls and boys are brought up and the difference displays itself in how they conduct themselves as adults. I think one of the problems is that in many families girls have better role models then the males do. You are around your female relatives a lot you learn from them, talk to them, watch how they interact with people, get advice from them etc. However a lot of times muslim men almost disengage from family life and see their role primarily as providers, putting in little input in to their families past that. I think then it can be problematic for boys because that is the example they are getting. As long as you put food on the table, a roof over your families head thats all that matters. I know this is a massive generalisation (some fathers are a lot better role models for their kids then their mothers like in mine and my DHs case ) but does anyone else share that experience? I never thought about that when I was getting married about looking to see what sort of father my potential H would be and Alhamdulillah I didnt walk in to a disaster but I think it is important to think about that and ask about how a person sees their role within their family though of course people can always give you the answer they think you want to hear.
Anyway pregnancy is really draining me. I dont remember it being this bad first time round. I feel bad though as I have little patience with ds who is a toddler and going through terrible twos right now. I was a bit shouty with him yesterday when I was telling him off as I had to haul my 8 month pregnant self after him when he ran off as I took him out of the car and almost ended up on the road. Of course he looked at me like what are you going on about woman. I am quite worried about how I am going to cope after baby two is born as its going to be primarily me and them for the bulk of the day. Please make dua for me. I really need to find my inner - calm, Mary Poppins style, zen - mother in the next lets say 3 weeks. Not much to ask is it.
salaam peaceful, I understand what you're going through with the pg and the toddler as I did the same, DS2 now 6 months and it's fine alhamdulillah. Remember that when you have the baby you will no longer be feeling so awful from the pregnancy. The highlight for me has been seeing the relationship grow between my 2 sons, may Allah make them companions to each other on the path of the righteous.
I found the last few weeks of pg really hard though, may Allah make it easy for you. Do you have much support?
I'm sorry to hear that Lost
Your dd will be fine as she's got you
Assalamalaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatahu
How is everyone? Inshallah I hope you are all in the best state of emaan and health. I am still pregnant. I was waiting to post until I had some news but doesnt look like baby wants to go anywhere, anytime soon . But the good news is Im on maternity leave so am feeling loads better having had some decent rest. I have done an intensive clean of my house top to bottom in preparation for baby (was going to ask your for tips actually lost) and we have bought mostly everything we need Alhamdulillah. I have been lucky as well that I have family nearby who have been taking ds off my hands from time to time so have had some real time to myself to relax before the madness ensues. MrsAtticus your post made me smile about seeing the relationship grow between your sons. Inshallah I hope to see that too with my little ones. My ds is the caring and sharing sort though he does have his moments where he wants to be top dog so to speak. Anyway hopefully wont be too much of an issue in the early days.
I am having huge problems picking names though. We have our girls name sorted out but me and dh are diametrically opposed when it comes to boys names. I prefer more classical, quranic names whilst he likes 'unique' less common ones (which I absolutely hate). Neither of us are backing down at the moment and we dont really have much time to resolve it. So just wanted to ask your opinions on some of my favourite ones.
Mine: Haroon, Soleman (pronounced Sulayman), Noah (pronounced Nuh), Abdullah
Dh: Ayman, Umayr, Abbas, Layth (wth)
No offense if anyone has relatives with names on my dh's list. They are perfectly acceptable names I'm just not in love with them. Im trying to compromise by saying we will give the child a middle name of his choice but he is not falling for it. Sigh. First world muslim problems eh.
Also wanted to ask for any recommendations on surahs or duas to read whilst in labour (the early stages not the pushing, out of your mind in pain bit). Also does anyone know at what point when you start experiencing regular contractions that you can stop your 5 salah? My dm was telling me about how she prayed all of her prayers when she was in labour right up until she had to push but I remember first time round stopping pretty early. Anyone know the ruling?
Anyway hopefully will have some news to update you with soon Inshallah. Make dua for me please that my labour is quick and easy and if you have any dua requests just pm me. I will make a general dua for you all especially you sis Lost. Any updates on your situation. Has your dd started to settle in yet. A lot of children have problems with settling in reception so dont be too hard on yourself. Inshallah I hope that things have improved for you.
Salaam ladies, I hope everyone is in good health and nobody minds me popping into the thread again.
Peaceful I like all of the names on your list, especially Haroon and Soleman. Not so keen on the ones on your DH's list (sorry peaceful's DH!). I will make dua that your labour goes as smoothly as possible, maybe it has even happened already?!
I don't want to lower the tone of the thread, or offend anybody, so please feel free to skim over this. I mentioned this in the previous thread, but I am a convert and am still familiarising myself with Islam in some ways.
I've discovered that Islam condemns suicide, and I am struggling with this ideology. Personally, I strongly feel people should have the right to end their own lives if they choose to do so when they are of sound mind. But also, I am questioning how suicide can be condemned if Allah is aware of each individual's suffering and struggles? Surely if Allah can see someone in pain/ suffering, he would not consider their suicide a major sin? Really hope my thoughts on this don't cause anyone distress, I'm just wondering how others feel about this?
Tiptops, you make an interesting point re suicides. To counter that from my POV, the question that arises in my head is that if suicide was acceptable in islam, what would there be to stop someone from committing suicide purely because they don't want to become a 'burden' on family/society, and not because their circumstances are unbearable? So in effect terminating their own life so others don't have to endure hardship.
We know that Islam has a very strict stance on suicide. We also know that Allah does not burden anyone with more than what they can bear. Allah says that He will test every human. In fact, Allah rewards the person for persevering through the problem. The harder the affliction, the greater the reward in the afterlife for persevering through it. With regards to illness, Allah removes the sins of those suffering from pain and ill health.
I know of 3 muslims who did commit suicide
One was a teenage girl who was losing her sight. One was a father to small children, an upstanding member of the community but his reputation took a hit when he was exposed for drug dealing and the other one was a newly wed young guy who felt he was hopeless at earning a living.
The trauma that ensued and the consequences are still being felt by their families even now, ten fifteen years later. I feel sympathy for these people and can imagine that they hit rock bottom and felt despair but just wish that they sought help for their despair, though i realise thats much much easier said than done. I wish they could have seen how much they were loved by their families, regardless of circumstances.
Al-Tirmidhi (2399) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) said: “Calamities will continue to befall believing men and women in themselves, their children and their wealth, until they meet Allaah with no burden of sin.”
It is this that we must always try and remember. There is always hope, if not in this life, then in the hereafter. Remember, dua is powerful.
verse 286 of surah baqrah is amazing:
Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us.
Sorry for going on a bit sis!
Peaceful sis, any news yet?
Lost and crescent, where are youuuuuuu???????
Salams Tiptops and Elusive.
Thanks tiptops for your comments about my names. I wont show DH but it has bolstered my confidence that my names are better. No news yet Elusive but if nothing happens soon my much desired vbac is going to go down the drain as I have already got my csection booked for next week.
With regards to the question on suicide Tiptops I dont think its offensive. Its quite a good question really. Unlike the bible and torah (from what I have read) the Quran clearly forbides suicide and declares it a major sin.
“...And do not throw (yourselves) with your own hands to destruction; but work (deeds of) excellence for verily Allah loves the people of excellence.” [Surah Baqarah 2:195]*
In another verse,
"And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely Allah is Most Merciful to you." [Surah Nisa 4:29]
So one reason why it is forbidden is that from the Islamic viewpoint it is seen as being quite a destructive, negative action and instead we are advised in Islam to do good actions which are positive. 'Even if your life is difficult an extra day alive is that much longer to work good deeds to distance oneself from the eternal torment of Hell-fire and a golden opportunity to win a better place in Paradise. A Believer capitalizes on each breath God allows him...God says (translated it means),
“And whoever does good equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant) will see it (on the Day of Resurrection to be rewarded) and whoever does mischief equal to the weight of an atom shall see it.” [Holy Quran: Chapter 99: Verses 7-8]
Suicide is also equated with unjustly taking a life even if it is your own life. In fact the taking of even one life unjustly is regarded as the taking of the life of the whole of mankind:
“Whoever kills a soul – unless for another soul or for corruption (vice and mischief spread) in the land – it is as if he had slain the whole of mankind. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved the whole of mankind.” [Holy Quran: Chapter 5: Verse 32]
About this verse I found this in an article relating it to suicide 'The noun, soul (nafs) in the verse is without the definite particle. In Arabic, an indefinite noun in a conditional clause gives the meaning of generality and comprehensiveness. Thus, the verse is not only concerning the taking of a soul of another person but even ones own life for both are souls created and entrusted to us by Allah. This is not only prohibited but strongly condemned as though you killed the whole of mankind'.
The bodies that we have do not really belong to us and are a trust from God. Not taking care of your body correctly is seen as committing an injustice against yourself and taking care of the body you have been entrusted with is seen as a good action.
Another reason why suicide is prohibited in Islam is that God is seen as the Giver of Life and death.
"It is He who gives life and causes death and to Him you shall be returned." [Surah Yunus 10:56]
'The time of our life's ending is determined by God and it's not up to us to end it. Doing so would be like saying to Allah, "I refuse this gift of Yours, and I deny Your right of giving and taking life." A person who commits suicide claims for himself one of the rights of Allah, which is the ending of life.
That's why Allah says in a Hadith Qudsi, speaking of the one who commits suicide:
“My servant has precipitated My will with regard to himself! Therefore, I am forbidding him entry into heaven.”'
'Also how do you know that your life won't turn for the better and everything will become alright? The night doesn't last forever and eventually gives way to daylight. Allah says:'
“ Verily, along with every hardship is relief, Verily, along with hardship is relief” (Holy Quran: Chapter 94; verse 5-6)
"And whosoever is conscious of Allah, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty). And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine. And whoever puts his trust in Allah, then He will suffice him. Verily, Allah will accomplish His purpose. Indeed Allah has sent a measure for all things." [Holy Quran: Chapter 65; verses 2-3]
"So lose not heart nor fall in to despair, and you will be superior if you are [true] believers." [Holy Quran: Chapter 3; verse 139]
I think when you commit suicide its almost as if you do not trust or believe that God can change your situation which demonstrates a lack of faith. You have lost hope in the mercy of God. Just because you are suffering today doesnt mean you will suffer forever.
The Quran advises us to do the following when facing trials that cause us suffering:
"O you who believe! Seek help through patience and the prayer. Indeed, Allah (is) with the patient ones." [Holy Quran: Chapter 2; verse 153]
So instead of longing for death we should be patient and pray to God for help when we are suffering. In fact, the one suffering hardship may actually be more beloved to God than one who is being left and not punished despite sins and impiety.
The Prophet informed us in a hadith, “Nothing strikes a believer – no fatigue, illness, worry, grief, hurt nor sorrow; not even a prick of a thorn – except that Allah wipes off due to it some of his sins.” [Collected in Sahih of Bukhari & Muslim]
I saw the following dua that you can make if these thoughts do cross a person's mind:
“O Allah! Keep me alive as long as living is better for me, and when death is better for me according to Your Knowledge, take me unto You.”
However you cant say definitively that someone will go to hell for committing suicide. I also found this whilst doing some reading around this topic.
'One thing we shouldnt do is say a person will definitely go to heaven or to hell...There are certain verses of the Qur’an and statements by the Prophet (peace be upon him) which tell us that those who perpetrate certain sins will be punished. But then it is up to God to determine what punishment fits every single case, because God judges us individually, on the basis of His perfect knowledge of our intentions and conditions.
^It is true that suicide is strictly forbidden, because it is an affront to God. But this applies to a person in full control of his faculties...if such a person commits suicide, then may be God will not allow him in heaven...A person who commits suicide as a result of a mental disorder like depression or some other severe form of anxiety is not in full control of his senses. We cannot say how God will judge such a person, but we trust to God’s justice, because He does not deal unfairly with anyone. We pray for the person concerned, and request God to forgive him. When a man committed suicide during the Prophet’s lifetime, the Prophet was distressed. He did not perform the funeral prayer for the deceased, but he ordered his companions to do it. When they did, they prayed for the man and requested God’s forgiveness for him. This shows that the Prophet did not exclude the possibility of his being forgiven by God. We also know from the following verse in the Quran that God forgives all sins except shirk.
“Verily Allah does not forgive that you set up partners with Him but He forgives anything else for whoever He wishes.” [Holy Quran Chapter 4: Verse 48]
Most of what I have written above is the 'islamic opinions' offered which I found whilst reading around the topic but my own thoughts on the idea would be quite similar to Elusive's. Who decides what sort of suffering and pain warrants suicide? Human beings are fragile and any number of tragedies from isolation, substance misuse, loss of family or friends, relationship break-ups, financial problems, sickness and disability could lead to someone resorting to taking their own life. Many of these are temporary afflictions (I know a person who attempted suicide when he was made redundant but is now happy in a new job) or ones that we can come to terms with eventually (i.e. the death of a loved one is painful but with the passage of time the pain becomes more bearable). It seems a waste and a little short sighted to end your life because of a temporary affliction. Also what about those not able to take their own life or make that decision like a child, severely disabled person or extremely ill individual. Is it fair that they do not have the choice to end their lives and everyone else does? Why should a child have to live with their suffering but an adult has a way to escape? Should their relatives then be able to make that decision for them? Again that throws up a lot of other moral dilemmas. Is it being done for the benefit of the person or because they are an inconvenience on their family, the tax payer, the state etc. Will people be pressured to take their own lives if they do become a burden on others? I just feel that allowing suicide throws up a whole heap of moral dilemmas that are difficult to solve.
Also like Elusive said you need to think about the impact on those close to that person. 'Few events in life have the same impact on us as the suicide of a friend or a loved one. The loss of a loved one, from any cause, brings out intense grief and mourning. The response and emotions felt by the bereaved following suicide are very different to those felt after other types of deaths. The fact that a loved one's death appears to involve an element of choice, raise painful questions which deaths from natural or accidental causes do not. Bereavement by suicide is usually prolonged. The grief is characterised by agonising, questioning and the search for some explanation as to why the death of his loved one has happened. Bereavement in this way often encompasses strong feelings of abandonment and rejection'. The person committing suicide may be seeking to escape their pain and suffering but then they are causing extreme pain and suffering in others.
I hope that makes sense.
Thank you so much Elusive and Peaceful for your insights and thoughts surrounding this. I've been mulling this over in my head by myself, so it's really helpful to have other people's views, as well as a more detailed Islamic explanation. I have a lot more thinking to do and will read through your posts a couple more times to make sure I absorb everything.
I suppose this has thrown me a little as I have initially disagreed with some Islamic ideas in the past, but all of them have become non-issues as I gained more knowledge and understanding. But this subject has caught me out a little, as I have always supported and believed in the right to end your own life.
Thank you both again for taking the time to reply
Sorry to interrupt, ladies. I just wondered if anyone had heard from crescent recently. I am so worried about my dear sister as we on the gratitudes thread haven't heard from her or been able to contact her for a while.
I briefly lurked on the earlier thread but didn't pluck up the courage to reply till now (don't really know why I needed courage but... The mind works in mysterious ways).
I'm an Australian, and moved to the UK six years ago when I got married. I live in the West Midlands and don't have close family in the UK. My inlaws are scattered around but not a very close family (compared to mine, anyway) and culturally very different to me, so it's been quite isolating for me, especially since I had two children (18 months apart! Alhamdulilah).
This motherhood caper is hard, Mubarak work! I remember reading, before I had children, about Jannah is at the feet of the mother. I thought at the time "subhanAllah. How lovely!". Now I have children I completely understand why!
Would love to keep in touch with some sisters iA, and perhaps meet up if any of you love locally (if that doesn't stink of desperation...!).
No idea where crescent is. I have been hoping that she would make an appearance but nope - nothing.
Have you PM'd her? No luck I take it? Dont know if anyone else on here knows where she is? I miss her too. Crescent sis, come back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Salaam Grumbelina, glad you plucked up the courage to post
Welcome to the tea room. Welcome to UK. Please keep posting, its nice to see new faces, or should i say, nice to see new posters! I am not in the midlands unfortunately. Dont know if any sisters know of any sisters circles or groups around your neck of the woods maybe? Agree with you that children are haaarrrd work, but so worth it right, or so i keep reminding myself!
Gotta dash, baby crying....
Will come back on again late
Peaceful.....any lovely lovely news yet???? I am useless as I love ALL the names both you and your DH chose! No help there then!
Really gotta go!
Just wanted to let you know I gave birth to a baby boy last week. Alhamdulillah we are both doing well but might be a bit too busy in coming weeks to post. Hope you are all well.
Salaam and hello sisters
I just came on to see if there was any news from peaceful. Congratulations sis, another little boy, how lovely. How is ds1 liking his little brother? I hope the early days are treating you kindly. Enjoy your little bundle of newborn snuffles and smells and beautifulness!
I've spoken with crescent offline and she's doing great as always. I think she may just be taking a little break. I'll pass on that she's missed and hopefully get her back on inshaallah.
Congrats to the peaceful family
Mashallah peaceful, that is wonderful news!!!! May Allah continue to shower His blessings on you and your family and let your children be the 'coolness of your eyes', Ameen.
I bet you are busy now but its a good busy isn't it. Just wondering whether you went with a traditional/classical name or a more modern one in the end?
Thanks for the update lost and tell crescent to get back here asap!!!!!! <stomps feet>
Thank you, Lost. We do miss her and Nunzia and I were worried when we couldn't contact her.
salams sisters, subhanallah everytime i say thats it for me on mumsnet something gets me to come back! thanks so much sis squishing for starting a new thread. peaceful fabulous news about your new baby mashaallah love, mubarak news. let this child be the coolness of your eyes inshaallah dear sister.
sammy, atticus, grumbelina, tiptops, so nice to see old and new sisters on this thread. elusive im back hun, Allah freed my neck.
dear stressed i was really touched that you were worried about me, il be sure to keep posting on the gratitudes thread dont worry but you and annunziata are doing a great job of welcoming people in. please also feel free to post in the tearoom any time lovely.
Salaams my lovely sisters,
I have been on and off but not forgotten you. So glad you have a third thread going, it is so inspirational reading all of your posts.
Please rememember me in your duaa's and many congratulations to you peaceful
Hope everyone is well.
Peaceful sis, I hope you are having lots of fun with your bundle of joy and not having too many sleepless nights.
Crescent!!!! There was a search party out looking for you! Lol!
Erm...don't know anymore words for welcome! You get the gist! Please don't disappear again!
Right, I have a question. I need a good online English speaking Quran teacher for my DCs. (Have I seriously failed my children as they are not bilingual? I have haven't I!) Can anybody recommend? Did a search but there are so many to choose from and I have no idea who they are or how good they are. Or where they are based in the world! Does anybody use an online Quran teacher? Need Quran teaching with tajweed rather than Pakistani style. How much do they charge? Do they teach daily? Do they teach for an hour or half an hour a day?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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