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Does anyone else find the anti denominational school stance depressing?

(241 Posts)
Plaza Fri 28-Mar-14 18:28:46

I recently read a thread where the majority seemed to agree that state schools should be secular and denominational schools done away with altogether.

I found this pretty depressing, no least as it would have been my personal view about a year ago... I have since moved my DC to a COE school and cannot praise it or the Christian ethics enough.. What do you think?

siblingrevelry Fri 28-Mar-14 18:34:05

As a product of catholic schooling and with two of three children just started at our local catholic school (baptised into the church at weeks old and school chosen for religion and results) I find it depressing too.

I remember before I had children I made the decision that I would like them to be educated against a background of religion (and that's just what it is, a background. It's an important ethos that runs through what they do, but it doesn't overtake the serious business of learning. I just find it makes for a very caring atmosphere. I never saw any bullying at either of my schools and it is very rare at my children's school too, which I believe has a lot to do with Christian attitudes towards one another)

Plaza Fri 28-Mar-14 18:37:35

I was raised in a strictly secular school & by strictly atheist parents.

I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Rumplestiltskinismyname Fri 28-Mar-14 18:37:38

I would have no issues with denominational schools if they didn't exclude others on admissions. In an area that is so heavily over subscribed- I cannot understand how they get away with this, as in my mind this is discrimination. I know this isn't everyone's view, but it is mine. Personally, I think that education and religion should be separate.

Plaza Fri 28-Mar-14 18:39:59

I really disagree. Our faith is our life and I want our children raised in our faith & culture as much as possible.

Plaza Fri 28-Mar-14 18:42:22

I suppose the issue is why don't non denominational schools do as well academically, to the point that parents of other or no faith would rather their children went to a faith school.

TheWoollybacksWife Fri 28-Mar-14 18:52:57

I have been a pupil at faith schools and my children have attended/are attending faith schools. It has been brilliant for them and they have thrived. I also really enjoyed my school days.

However - this was a choice I wanted and I was fortunate that there were schools that suited my choice and could take my children. For atheist parents that choice does not exist. Even so called non-denominational schools have to hold an act of worship.

I would support the call for the setting up of non-denominational schools provided that they existed alongside faith schools so that all parents had the same choice.

Parietal Fri 28-Mar-14 19:00:23

I don't mind if there are faith schools as long as faith doesn't determine admissions. That creates barriers between communities and is not fair on kids of different faith to the best school in the area.

heronsfly Fri 28-Mar-14 19:01:31

I am another like the poster above, a product of Catholic schooling myself, and my 6dcs have all been baptised at weeks old, recieved first Holy Communion and have been Confirmed.They have all been educated in Catholic schools, the two youngest dds are still attending a highly succesfull, oversubscribed Catholic Convent School.
But it is not all about education, we attempt to follow the Catholc ethos in every part of our lives,and parents are expected to take a huge interest in both Parish and School events.
I think its sad that so many people would like the denominational
Schools removed.

Plaza Fri 28-Mar-14 19:02:42

I've never known a non denominational school to hold an act of worship.

I would say it's a call for non denominational schools to pull their socks up in line with better achieving denominational schools so that parents didn't feel their children were being excluded from a good education.

Gomez Fri 28-Mar-14 19:06:13

I would like the choice of a secular education for my children.

The same as the posters above have the choice of a faith based education for their children.

Why is this depressing?

WhosLookingAfterCourtney Fri 28-Mar-14 19:06:33

As has already been said, it's the admission discrimination that is the main problem - taxpayer funded schools that aren't open to all taxpayers. How can you defend that?

Also a problem is the worship in non-faith schools. Completely bonkers in this day and age.

Gomez Fri 28-Mar-14 19:08:11

Harvest, Christmas and Easter Services all acts of worships. And I would bet undertaken by 95% of non-demonational schools across the UK.

Non-denominational schools are required by statute to undertake a minimum number of acts of worship each year.

Plaza Fri 28-Mar-14 19:09:22

Depressing that we shouldn't be allowed the choice, that all education should be secular

Gomez Fri 28-Mar-14 19:11:26

Are you currently depressed about the lack of choice for those who do want a secular education?

Plaza Fri 28-Mar-14 19:11:37

Do people really object that much to harvest, Easter and Christmas, and would the same parents then not celebrate these festivals at home? Surely they want their children to learn the original meaning of the festivals (in a educational sense), rather than just presents and chocolate?

BackOnlyBriefly Fri 28-Mar-14 19:12:56

As long as there's a school that supports my religion nearby for my children I don't give a damn about other people's children. If they don't get a choice it's just tough. They should have been Catholic/Jewish/Muslim like me.

Does that about cover it?

Plaza Fri 28-Mar-14 19:13:07

I am depressed that secular schools clearly aren't achieving as highly as denominational schools, I think that is the point in hand. I don't think doing away with denominational schools will suddenly make secular schools better.

Rumplestiltskinismyname Fri 28-Mar-14 19:15:09

I think that isn't the only issue in hand. A discriminatory admissions policy is a pretty huge one too... Don't you think?

Nocomet Fri 28-Mar-14 19:15:13

The trouble is there are three separate worlds.

1) real religious schools, Catholic, Muslim and Jewish that provide an education for those Faiths (to which I object as a feminist, but accept because I feel parents should be free to bring up their children their way)

2) Rural CofE schools that aren't over subscribed and where the religious bit in the admissions code is ignored (except possibly for out of catchment DCs in a bumper baby year)

3) Town/City schools where all sorts of pseudo religious claims are made by parents as they have somehow (possibly by being in older nicer areas) got the best reputation.

3) are massively devise and need to go.
1) are a complicated moral issue
2) are a mostly harmless historical accident

heronsfly Fri 28-Mar-14 19:15:37

The Catholic Diocese pays a huge amount of money towards the upkeep of our school buildings and also towards the support of the children, it is not all state funded.

pootlebug Fri 28-Mar-14 19:16:28

I don't mind if religious schools exist, so long as they are not permitted to choose students on the basis of religion and/or church attendance.

Plaza Fri 28-Mar-14 19:17:32

But if there were two schools nearby, both were equally matched, and you were an atheist, why would you choose to send your children to the faith school?

I'm assuming that people choose faith schools as they are better achieving? I may be wrong on that so please enlighten me if so.

NonnoMum Fri 28-Mar-14 19:18:26

This comes up every so often on Mumsnet.

People don't realise that it is connected to our Head of State being Head of the Church too.

Church schools are intertwined with this.

I'm not saying whether or not this is right or not, I'm just mentioning this as a fact.

BackOnlyBriefly Fri 28-Mar-14 19:18:44

Do people really object that much to harvest, Easter and Christmas,

Oh not that one again. The original meaning of Christmas was about an orgy of sex and food. And did you think the Easter egg was something started by Jesus? it's about fertility and sex.

If you look it up you will find most of your beloved Christian symbols are actually about other religions.

People are mostly happy with their kids learning about religion but object to their kids being told that your favourite religion is real. Lying to children is not a good start to their education.

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