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Welcome to muslim tea room 2.

(1000 Posts)
defuse Mon 30-Dec-13 22:18:47

Peace to you all smile

Ok, well here it is again...we have moved to room 2 now grin

Discuss whatever aspect of islam you like my lovely sisters - this is a place for muslims and non-muslims too, to share experiences, raising kids or just having your say! smile

The kettle is on.... We have loads of herbal teas, coffee and guava juice .... I like guava juice grin so welcome! smile


crescentmoon Thu 30-Jan-14 11:44:16

salams my lovelies,

sorry or not posting, dc have been really unwell, one by one all down with the flu, and im stressed doing tax return online so i havent had anything intelligible to say here till now!

but ummshi and fuzzy thats how iv always understood the saying as well! islam is based on the 5 pillars and the zakah is the third and maybe one can say from that the central pillar. an ICM poll done with the charity website Justgiving found that by religious groups muslims gave the most charity in the UK - an average £371 per year. it was published in the Times but because of the firewall il give the huffpo link here:

what that average figure doesnt go into is how much is zakat and how much is sadaqah though! because zakah is the obligatory charity, and that a motivation for me!! many of us is that charity extinguishes the anger of Allah like water extinguishes fire as the prophet (pbuh) said. (in the hadith 'fasting is a shield and charity extinguishes sin')

crescentmoon Thu 30-Jan-14 11:44:28

as for 'when the rich give up the zakah the poor give up the salah'. its not a uncommon thing that some people join the religion because they seek the protection and help of a group - this was recognised even in the time of the prophet (pbuh). there were those who were turned off by the commercialism and polytheism of the makkan arab society, and they wanted the simple monotheism Muhammad (pbuh) was preaching about. but even in his time many dispossessed people also converted, not just the poor, the weak, but lonely people, or people without the membership of a strong warrior tribe also took the shahadah.

we have the same thing now, people convert to islam as individuals or in large groups (but maybe small in their own societies) for social security (as in that nytimes article i linked earlier) or for economic security. The islamic ideals about social justice and zakah was something that attracted the latter, and for that right to access help they took on the other obligations of islam like the second pillar the prayer - which is harder to fit in the day when you are working in a low wage job just to be able to get by and having to negotiate prayer times and ablution in the back breaking jobs many poor do where they might not have much of their own bargaining power to follow the deen. and the fifth pillar the hajj, which is so hard to save up for even just to go once in one's lifetime if your not earning much.

but the reason the rich were attracted to the deen was because of the much needed law structure that the Quran and hadith provided in the lawlessness of the arabian desert where it was survival of the fittest and the one who had the largest militia got to call the shots. and so it is now, for people who dont need the social or economic advantages its the discipline and structure that they are attracted to. for those advantages was the obligation of the zakah - which is not on the poor (those who do not have savings or property above the nisab level), and also the obligation of the ramadan fast to remind them how it is to go hungry and not be able to afford any food to eat as the poor. (who might regularly go without food that the ramadan fast is not such a hardship for them.) i think its this then that when the rich give up the zakah, the third and central pillar, then the second pillar falls as well because it makes people lose faith and become disillusioned in the religion.

not just the charity side ,i think the sense of betrayal some muslims get when they are not offered that brotherhood/sisterhood or cannot find it amongst the muslims they are with, or watching on aljazeera and seeing what fellow muslims do to each other when there are supposed to be such strong ties between the people who proclaim 'la illaha illallah', that can really fatally undermine their emaan. it doesnt mean their faith was superficial or insincere to begin with, because there are among many of the reasons people are muslim or stay muslim or take up being a muslim.

crescentmoon Thu 30-Jan-14 12:12:53

im going to this event in april bank holiday weekend with my family inshallah anyone else?

(and i mean inshaallah like really inshaallah, not the magical land inshaallah where 99% of muslim promises, presents and punctuality is stored!)

its going to be our only break this year and im looking forward to the programme as well. if anyone else is there we could have a meet up maybe?

fuzzywuzzy Thu 30-Jan-14 13:58:03

OMG that looks so amazing mashallah I'd love to go to something like that.

Come back and give us a review inshallah, let us know if you attend the talks.

crescentmoon Thu 30-Jan-14 15:13:47

It's going to be fab inshallah, go on fuzzy you and your girls will have a great time. For us definitely we're not able to go on the lovely sun sea halal type holidays abroad so this will be good. I used to go to the Islam camp years ago and I think this is the grown up version. I'm trying to convince my mum too to come so she can spend some lovely time with the dc wink wink.I'm looking forward to the night prayers and the Quran recitals as well as the chance to unwind and have a mini break away inshallah.

Anyone else trying to be a hands free mama? It's very boring isn't it at times? I love the night shifts dh does so I can have the PC without feeling guilty I'm ignoring my family. My internet free mobile makes me gnash my teeth often- and I spend most evenings after dc go to bed saying to my husband 'go on then, say something to make me laugh!'. Subhanallah but As peaceful said a few pages ago the, it's cheaper to amuse oneself on iplayer than couple therapy lol!

defuse Thu 30-Jan-14 21:30:03

Salaam all.

crescent that family break sounds amazing. I would have gone if circumstances had allowed. I hope they have it next year too, then inshallah i should be able to go. I have been looking at the details (not that i can go!) and am a bit confused. It says that its a 4 day break (18-21) so does that mean its a 3 night stay at the hotel with meals over 4 days included? Because elsewhere it says that activities are covered for saturday and sunday. Doesnt mention other days.

De vere hotel near leeds is absolutely gorgeous. If this is anything like that one, then it will be a lovely stay inshallah.

Welshcake77 Fri 31-Jan-14 15:39:56

hello and salaam ladies! I need to catch up on the thread to reply properly but just wanted to say hello while I have some time. I have been really busy this week as after job hunting for 6 months I finally got a new job! Am so happy, I start on Monday though so I have had lots to organise this week and unfortunately DD is not well so has been up all night every night and we're all a bit exhausted! I'm nervous and a bit worried about how I will manage everything (it is a full time position) but also looking forward to using my brain a bit more.

I will be using my commute on the train to read some of the links you suggested to me so hopefully I will be able to participate a bit more and ask you all lots of questions smile

I hope you are all well, happy Friday to you all.

crescentmoon Fri 31-Jan-14 18:40:23

happy friday welshcake, so glad about your new job and inshaallah god willing your first day monday will go really well. im hoping worldcitizen comes along soon as shes in germany too. ask questions as and when you like love, if we all put our heads together we will figure them out!

i had to look up what you meant by de vere hotel that leeds one is lovely. im so excited about the activities on offer on this break, i think there are set courses over the weekend but maybe free time over the friday and monday to do the sports. i love the idea of the calligraphy class, but art wise im more into islamic geometric art - (whispers: i did a simple class with a kids group for the masjid last year and it was really fun!). iv seen these calligraphy courses become fashionable but its too curly wurly for me- beautiful mashaallah to look at though. how has everyones week been? welcome to any new posters inshaallah with copious brew, cake and biscuit on offer!

BettyButter Sat 01-Feb-14 00:20:29

Assalamu alikum. I am a revert, nearly three years now alhamdulilah. I have caught up on the thread. I had a long period of not praying but alhamdulilah I have kept the past few days. You ladies have inspired me. I need to surround myself with Islam to keep my Iman high I think. I tend to be all or nothing in life so this time Inshaallah I will try not to overdo things, and make the 5 fard salah for the next month or so till it becomes a good habit. Then Inshaallah add dua, more dhikr, fasting etc as it feels right. Do any of you have low points? How do you overcome it? Someone once explained it to me like passing seasons...
I feel like I could talk and talk right now. I don't currently socialise with any sisters. My husband is older so his friends are older and their wives are really a generation apart from me.
Like I said up thread you really have inspired me, you all live your lives and juggle your commitments and your Deen. I have been lazy and making excuses. May Allah SWT reward you all. I've been lurking for a few days, there could be many more out there that are being inspired too wink

LostAtTheEndOfTheRainbow Sat 01-Feb-14 07:15:06

Salaam and hello sisters

Congratulations gosh, how lovely to have a new baby daughter.

Crescent I hope your dc are feeling better, there's so many nasties going round this time of year. That weekend break looks amazing, I'm going to look into it but as we're going abroad this year I doubt we'll be able to.

I've just saved the hands free mama page to my bookmarks to have a read later today!

Congratulations on your new job welshcake, I hope your first day goes well.

Walaikum asalaam betty. I'm glad you've joined us. I was exactly the same as you, I had a period where I didn't pray and like you this thread inspired me. I also go to my local mosque every weekend for lessons just for reverts, it's great and alhamdullilah it's increased my iman. Talk away, we're all here to listen, the more the merrier smile.

Hope you all have a lovely weekend.

crescentmoon Sat 01-Feb-14 14:50:42

salams betty, just like lost im so glad you joined the thread sis and i hope more delurk and post too. i also really admire the sisters here. myself im not that practising betty, i don't do much above the bare minimum and it only got abit above bare minimum because of sisters like fuzzy on this board. i know what you mean about seasons, i felt my islam hibernate for a few years as i lived in a couple of places with barely any muslims and it got so i felt it was all my effort just to maintain salah and ramadan. take it slowly, dont pile too much on yourself straight away butter, there is a hadith that says:

Anas ibn Malik reported: The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said, “Verily, this religion is vast, so enter its depth with gentleness.”

Source: Musnad Ahmad 27318

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to As-Suyuti

dont throw oneself in and become overwhelmed but the religion is deep so dive carefully.

as for handsfreemama lost, i became so sad at recognising so much of myself in her article here about my relationship with ds1: . i said i had to do a jihad against this part of myself.

i saw this story on another MN thread earlier this week and really couldnt stop thinking about it- what do you think?

"An old Cherokee chief was teaching his grandson about life...
"A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy.
"It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves.
"One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, self-doubt, and ego.
"The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.
"This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather,
"Which wolf will win?"
The old chief simply replied,
"The one you feed.""

i thought how it fitted in so well with the islamic idea about the nafs/ego-the lower self, in this the bad wolf, and the ruh - the higher self, the spirit, the good wolf. and that imagery of their constant battling with each other.

BettyButter Sat 01-Feb-14 23:36:12

Salam ladies, well I'm assuming we are all ladies? wink
Thanks for the lovely welcome. That's a good reminder Crescent about the religion being fast so to take it slowly, I remember as a new Muslim reading that the Quran was 23 years (?) to be revealed, and we should take it slowly.
Lost, for a year before and a year after I reverted I spent hours and hours online, reading and learning about Islam. Attending Jummah at the mosque and I went to a couple if sisters circles. I think when I started trying to conceive I started to read up about conception and health etc and my focus shifted... But alhamdulilah I'm back now and Inshaallah this will be it. Lots to learn on this thread and hopefully I'll be able to give something back...
I read the hands free mama blog on bullying. Really struck a chord with me, I worry I do this with my DSC and might do it with my DD when she is older. So I've bought the book! Haha! I think this thread is going to be life changingthanks
Now, I have a very serious question to ask.... Do any of you thread your eyebrows? grin I stopped plucking as I read the removal of eyebrow hairs was prohibited. But I see Muslim ladies with perfect eyebrows everywhere! Is threading permitted? I don't usually bother, it's liberating have a good reason not to pluck them but I have a wedding coming up so would like to look my best. smile
I downloaded a new Adhan alarm app from Islamic Finder for my phone today. Has lots of changeable settings etc, and the stunning Mecca Adhan. my favourite one so far.

BettyButter Sat 01-Feb-14 23:42:37

I forgot to say about the wolves story (on phone so can't scroll back) it's a great way of looking at our strengths and weaknesses. I imagine that's written by a religious person? Another good analogy I read was about exercising our character traits such as discipline, resistance etc as we exercise our other muscles, the more you do it (resist cake/pray fajr) the stronger those muscles get so the easier it is.

fuzzywuzzy Mon 03-Feb-14 09:23:36


When my iman is low I force myself to continue with the fard and I also listen to lectures more and just make duas.

The eyebrows thing as far as I am aware personally is that one is not meant to shape ones eyebrows by plucking in any form, you can pluck the middle bit if your eyebrows join in the middle but apart from that you're not supposed to. I'm sure if you dug deep enough you'd find a fatwa telling you to shape them tho.
I just brush my eyebrows with a brow brush and forget them. I'm no help sorry!

It was world Hijab day on Saturday, anyone have friends participate?

UmmSHI Wed 05-Feb-14 20:37:18

Salam sisters. Sorry I disappeared for a while. I was having my laptop repaired and I don't really do the internet on phone thing.

Welcome Betty, nice to see someone new. I totally get your low iman feelings. It is so hard, and that's why I come here too, just to get a little lift sometimes.

As far as the eyebrows go, I'm with fuzzy. Although it is tempting to pluck, I really try not to. I have done in the past but I have always followed the opinion that it is something we are not supposed to do.

As always, hope everybody is ok. I feel so much happier now the days are getting longer. A lot more positive. I'm so much more a summer person now whereas I used to love winter, I think because I have spent time in a hot country and became accustomed to it. What about everyone else?

defuse Wed 05-Feb-14 22:49:55

Salaam all,

Been meaning to post but feel exhausted by evening! Nice to have you here betty. I also tend to just pluck/thread between the eyebrows and leave the rest - otherwise i would have a monobrow grin

I used to be meticulous about waxing my arms, legs etc, but what is it about being married for 5 plus years that i just cant be bothered to wax so regularly any more! My view now is that my DH has seen me cut open for a caesarean - so a bit of body hair shouldnt put him off now should it! grin

Having said that, i did wax last week after aaaagggggeeeeesss and it actually felt quite nice - I might start doing it regularly again .

ummshi i like the dark mornings and the dark evenings at the moment, but that is because the kids sleep as long as it is dark! I really want a hot hot summer this year as holidays are not going to happen for sometime yet. If its beautifully hot, then i love the long daylight hours too. Although most of those hours do get spent at work rather than enjoying the weather!

Off to bed now....

Speak soon inshallah

BettyButter Wed 05-Feb-14 23:12:34

Thanks for your replies ladies. I think I will not thread for the wedding and just comb them into shape.

I love the longer daylight hours but much prefer the winter weather for ease of wearing hijab....

crescentmoon Thu 06-Feb-14 21:05:23

salams betty, defuse, ummshi, fuzzy, welshcake, little, butterfly, peaceful, worldcitizen, lost, hope you are all well inshaallah. glad to see the tearoom revived, i didnt have much time to post these days.

im glad you bought the book betty, i think i would wither if i read the whole blog, just a few posts have me feeling very bad! that one about the bully close to home is a sobering read, i realised with that article that it was also alot to do with irritation at being disturbed from my downtime/pursuing my own interests. going handsfree has been super annoying: no camera on my phone and i cant receive pics, no whatsapp, instagram, facebook apps, no google maps, or even being able to look up things as soon as i need to - especailly at work where its very aggravating not having that! when texting needing to tap the button out to the letter i want and dealing with T9. texts are dificult to organise, no music on my phone. i think i went to too old a model in some ways in going back to basics.
but you know what sisters, my sleep has improved - i dont pick up the phone and while away ages in middle of night browsing all my social media accounts. i read more books till the end now - i scarily lost the ability last year to concentrate and read a book all the way through because id get bored easily. because i dont carry the internet in a phone i find i use the internet less generally as i cant be bothered to power up or seek out a desktop just for simple enquiries.
and i make more eye contact with my dc instead of saying 'hmm' looking down at my phone as they talk/ play around me! i get irritated with them alot less because im not trying to multi task or have multiple conversations /read stuff - especially with ds1. im just with them more instead of ignoring them whilst theyre eating/bathing/dressing to fiddle about with my phone - though it was annoying at the time im grateful DH made the comments he did. inshaallah il stick to this thing, i still feel abit weak but when i do i realise how much i was missing of their lives before by trying not to miss what was happening in the wider world/ my social circle/ family and friends lives on facebook! i wish i could go completely cold turkey but right now slowly slowly. Umar ibn Al khattab said 'Take yourself to account before you are taken to account. Weigh your deeds before your deeds are weighed'. and i think websites like handsfreemama help me with that self accountability!

crescentmoon Thu 06-Feb-14 22:33:35

as for eyebrows - i know the hadith and the wording is quite strong but in the Shaafiee madhab its taken along with other hadith, not in isolation by itself, so as to understand the purpose behind it and understand the exemptions. being a married woman i started taking the exemption last year - i enjoy getting them done as i feel my whole face looks very different with well groomed eyebrows! i wish i could say that when natural they look like im in transition to werewolf or something but actually theyre only a little untidy when not done but not really hairy or anything alhamdullillah.
with hair removal i try to make sure i do at least the parts mentioned in the hadith on fitra here every month but sometimes i stretch them to the 40 days limit. as for arms and legs im not as bothered as like most of my family i dont have any much arm or leg hair at all!
i love winter as a hijabi too betty, i like being able to layer clothing. i also like it for the long dark nights defuse, i laughed out loud when you said your children slept longer so do mine as long as its dark! summer time its a killer as i try to shift them at 7 and its still light in the sky until 10pm! (anyone else breaking out into a sweat over ramadan starting in June this year?!).

its after magrib/sunset on thursday evening so according to custom its already friday. Jumaah Mubarak everyone!

peacefuloptimist Thu 06-Feb-14 23:47:58

Salamalaykum sisters

How are you all? Welcome to all the new posters. Sorry I haven't been posting much either. I suffered a miscarriage recently which has kept me away. Alhamdulillah I am well and recovering. It was at a very early point in the pregnancy so I hadn't had long to get used to the idea of being pregnant but at the same time I was so shocked about how much your body has to go through to miscarry even at such an early point in the pregnancy.

I wanted to ask for some advice on tahara issues from any sisters with experience of this. Did you resume your ritual prayers whilst still bleeding (sorry for tmi) or did you wait until it had stopped. The advice I have read online had been quite conflicted with some people saying you still have to pray regardless, others saying it depends on what stage you were at. Some say its like menstruation other say its equivalent to post natal bleeding. confused. Anyway Ive kind of been following the one I feel most comfortable with but not sure if this is the right way to go about it.

Anyway jumuah Mubarak all. I will keep you in my duas. Please remember to pray for the muslims suffering around the world. Ya Allah it brings you to tears. I looked at the family break link you posted Crescent and Im hoping to go too. There is something about being in the company of fellow muslims especially those who are striving to improve that gives life to your emaan. I once heard a talk by Muhammed Al Shareef in which he said the sunnah/tradition of God's creation is that if you are not growing you are dying. Really shocked me even till now. But its kind of true. Its difficult to maintain a certain level of faith/knowledge/actions indefinitely you tend to either go up or down. Inshallah I pray we all go up in these things rather then down.

UmmSHI Fri 07-Feb-14 13:59:58

Wa alaikum salam peaceful Sorry for your loss, may Allah bring about good from it.

I have experienced miscarriages myself and I understood that because they were early losses, I was to continue praying. That is what I did anyway but I can't offer anymore help than that.

crescent you have done so well to limit your internet use mashaAllah. I think we are all guilty of missing parts of our childrens' lives sometimes. I don't go on internet on my phone but I do love my laptop.

As for the rest of you with your love of the dark mornings, I don't know what is wrong with you all, haha. I'm joking really and I am dreading trying to get them to bed when it is still light out in the summer. I can just imagine the objections now.

I still have all of last years Ramadhan to make up for, so reminders about the next one arriving are making me crazy. It will be a hard one this year but inshaAllah I am determined to make the most of it, especially after missing last year. Not just the fasting but praying too due to postpartum bleeding for some of it. I was very lacking in spirituality and iman and as such feel like it didn't even occur. Praying for a better time this year.

fuzzywuzzy Fri 07-Feb-14 19:55:05

Innah lillah wa innah Iley hai rajeoon, I'm so sorry peaceful May Allah grant you Sabr.

My sister had several miscarriages and she always waited till she'd finished bleeding before resuming praying. She treated it as nifas.

I'll ask my friend inshallah. I am friends with a female scholar alhumdulilla (& how cool is that)!

crescentmoon Sat 08-Feb-14 00:43:54

salams sisters,

peaceful I realised you hadn't posted in awhile and had wondered how you were. Innah lillahi wa innah ilayhi rajioon, im so sorry about your loss. even if in early stage of pregnancy, it will still bear on one's mind that this had been a potential family member for all of you and a soul you didnt get to meet in the dunya.

when talking about fiqh and legal issues, we need to refer to the hadith where the prophet (pbuh) said that the ensoulment occurs at 120 days after conception. this is for deciding the fiqh rulings on whether it is like hayd or like nifas/whether to have a burial/whether to read the funeral prayer/cover with the shroud/whether or not for diya in case of injury etc.

but spiritually, whether miscarriage (before ensoulment at 120 days) or stillbirth after ensoulment, muhammad (pbuh) said the child who dies in the womb will drag their mother to heaven by the umbilical cord for her patience in dealing with the loss ( full hadith here please read ).
maybe early in the pregnancy and you didnt know for long, but still a child who can do khidmah for you, not praying for you in the dunya after you die as you hope from your firstborn. but this one going ahead of you to the akhirah, to be an intercessor on yawmal qiyamah with Allah, confronts Him, that you must go to the Garden with them. and like all the children in Jannah who die before puberty, this child will be in the care of Sayidna Ibrahim (as). and how excellent such a person is to hold the amanah that is your child for you inshaallah.

i don't know if you listen to music but there was a song in Beyonce's new album released recently about her own miscarriage in 2012. whatever else to be made of her other songs and work, i was really surprised that the lyrics to this song 'Heaven couldnt wait for you' were very spiritual and told of her feelings of loss and acceptance. it ends with the Lord's prayer in Spanish: "Our father, which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven Amen." Your Will Be Done, subhanallah. even if you just listen to it the once i think you will find its got very deep ideas.

as for i know you may have read different fatawa, so really its about how is your health and how are you emotionally right now. if you need time finding it hard to reconcile then i would take whichever opinion that relieves you from as much of ritual obligations as possible.
in the past when i have felt abit battered or ground down by the Divine Will, where I am holding onto the deen with gritted teeth and its like a hot coal in my hand. in those situations il take whatever the easier rulings are to relieve me from as much of wajib/obligatory as I can. so i can shore up my physical and mental energy for the pressing thing i need to deal with.

CuriousGeorginah Sat 08-Feb-14 20:32:35

'Scuse me for butting in - (commiserations, peaceful, I'm sorry for your recent loss).

I'm delurking to say hello. I'm an atheist who is interested in finding out more about Islam in particular, which I can't really explain. It's like I have an itch I can't scratch. So just to say I'm enjoying reading along and going to all the links you post. smile

BettyButter Sat 08-Feb-14 21:18:17

Salam ladies. I wrote a huge post this morning which appears not to have arrived! hmm

Peaceful I am sorry for your loss and May Allah SWT grant you and your husband patience to heal.

Crescent thanks for the links. (Ouch to the armpit plucking!) How do you decide on which school of thought to follow? Were you raised in a particular one? I find this tricky as I would probably say im Sunni but I'm scared to dig any deeper than that... I follow Productive Muslim, this thread and a few Islamic Facebook pages. When I was first considering Islam I watched lots of episodes of The Deen Show. I used to watch the Q&A on Iqra tv until the host said to keep your shoes on whilst you pray?! Has anyone else heard that?
I love that here you have differing opinions and all respect eachothers. Up to now I've mostly followed my instincts and checked my intention before settling on a decision about about whether something is permissible etc.

Curious, hello! Nice to have you here. I'm a former staunch Atheist. Have you always been Atheist?

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