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Come talk to me about Hitchens?

(193 Posts)
ICBINEG Fri 12-Apr-13 01:41:47

How did I not know about Hitchens?

How do I not stay up all night trawling youtube....

Seriously..I have been a kinda quiet atheist...don't poke me with your religion and I won't poke you with how stupid it all sounds to me.

I feel like someone stuck a fire cracker up my back side.

What if there is a moral imperative that atheists get out there and attempt to rid the world of the evil that is religion?

I am all confused now.

sieglinde Thu 18-Apr-13 11:08:54

Phew. My wink didn't work... wink See you for socialism/communism, then...

EllieArroway Thu 18-Apr-13 09:23:30

Oh - FFS! That last post made no sense. Ignore it. I'm trying to work and post at the same time, big mistake.

No - I'm not anti.

EllieArroway Thu 18-Apr-13 09:21:52

Sorry. I don't know why I stuck the "anti" on. Brain fart.

No, definitely not! Ha.

sieglinde Thu 18-Apr-13 09:07:03

All really great stuff, Ellie.

Count me in, and since I'm a bit busy just now, maybe message me when you've got something set up as I've got a bit too much on to search for it... Very much hoping to learn from the debate, and from the extra reading it will push me to do!

I hope you yourself are not antidisestablishmentarian ;). Anyone who is must surely have been convinced by yesterday's event?

EllieArroway Thu 18-Apr-13 07:13:40


Ellie, I'd love to get into socialism - and its Pythagorean and in fact Xtian origins - care to? Maybe a new thread?

Certainly. I was thinking I might start a thread about the whole Stalin/Mao thing since it's such a common theme on here. It raises so many issues, not to mention misunderstandings, that I think there's scope for a really interesting discussion. Christianity/Marxism is also an interesting topic to explore, and the "souls" of socialism. Give me a day or two to get myself together and I'll get one set up.

I feel sure you've read Marx - my doubt was based on the fact that you never cite his works Well, there's never any real need for me to, since my discussions on here in this vein are only ever about Stalin and his atrocities. I don't accept that Marx/ism had anything at all to do with it, so I don't raise it. Don't worry - I'll explain on the new thread exactly what I mean by that and you can argue me out of it to your heart's content wink

May I just say all over again that I am a keen disestablishmentarian, loathe compulsory prayer in schools, and believe strongly that evolution is the best explanation for the natural world's form and variety? Well, kudos for using the word "disestablishmentarian"!....but don't worry, I know all that.


sieglinde Wed 17-Apr-13 18:29:40

Truce gladly accepted, Ellie. I love opinionated women too - I have to! thanks

NicholasTeakozy Wed 17-Apr-13 14:11:27

That's 'cos you are a woman with opinions CY! grin Tbh it was mostly men who called her out and didn't like it when she put them in their place. I may just love her a little bit.

CheerfulYank Wed 17-Apr-13 13:40:32

I love women with opinions!

<pointless post as place marker grin>

NicholasTeakozy Wed 17-Apr-13 13:10:56

Yes Ellie, she's brilliant. She doesn't pull any punches, and I think she's had her Facebook page taken down as a result. Too many theists complained about getting butthurt by a woman with an opinion.

Isabeller Wed 17-Apr-13 12:32:18

Just been told about Science and Nature Club

PedroYoniLikesCrisps Wed 17-Apr-13 12:18:33

ellie have you read "How to Teach Quantum Physics to your Dog"?

EllieArroway Wed 17-Apr-13 11:00:03

firstly they aren't necessarily that dumbed down at all Good! That makes me feel slightly less thick. I currently have "Quantum Theory Cannot Hurt You" beside my bed & I'm having to read each page at least three times to get the gist grin

Sieglinde Read and understood. I'm not ignoring you at all, but truly have to dash now. Will reply later. I'm glad we've both stopped shouting - we're better than that, I think. My second truce of the day thanks.

Have a good day all smile

ICBINEG Wed 17-Apr-13 10:18:20

Oh I didn't mean to do down pop science books so much!

There are two things...firstly they aren't necessarily that dumbed down at all. And secondly many physics graduates leave with the same misconceptions that many in the general public have. We are not talking easy here!

sieglinde Wed 17-Apr-13 10:13:12

Sorry all - did a huge post and just deleted it by accident. FFS. No time now to fix it, but let me quickly say these things.

Apologies to ICB if I misread - and actually it's good that I didn't have to yell. I've stopped yelling now.

Ellie, I'd love to get into socialism - and its Pythagorean and in fact Xtian origins - care to? Maybe a new thread? I feel sure you've read Marx - my doubt was based on the fact that you never cite his works. Since i see them as very powerful - as opposed to Hitchens - I just assumed you hadn't had the chance to read them. But I meant no insult.

I also promise you that refereed journals in my field are refereed journals - I'm on the editorial board of two... neither has anything to do with the redtop press grin.

I also really really like the idea of a science area. And a QM thread.

May I just say all over again that I am a keen disestablishmentarian, loathe compulsory prayer in schools, and believe strongly that evolution is the best explanation for the natural world's form and variety?

I won't get into the crime debate. I don't know enough.

EllieArroway Wed 17-Apr-13 09:39:05

See, I think we need a science thread where you and our various other scientists can visit to answer questions from those of us trying to get a handle on stuff. A kind of general, ask your questions here kind of thing.

I read those pop sci books you mention (Marcus Chown et al) and I always arrive at a place where I get completely stuck. I know they're meant to be dumbed down - but they're not quite dumbed down enough for me blush.

Also, I (and other atheists, I think) quite often get asked questions by questioning Christians that would really be better answered by a professional.

I won't start the thread myself - I am not exactly bathed in popularity on these threads, on account of my intolerance and bigotry ahem - so I'd probably get ignored. Perhaps someone else could?

ICBINEG Wed 17-Apr-13 09:26:31

isabella the problem with a QM thread is that it is a mathematical theory that describes our experimentally verified reality very well.

However a fantastic amount of what people think it says/implies comes from converting elegant mathematical concepts into something that relates to our everyday experience that can be discussed in words. This is not a process that ends particular well for anyone.....

Also some of the famous (from a pop sci point of view ) thought experiments don't actually work, and in particular suffer from the 'special observer' problem. People don't in fact have a unique observer status and hence the cat in a box thought experiment doesn't work. As in the cat is dead or alive (not a superposition of both) long before the scientist opens the box.

Gah maybe we should have a thread...

EllieArroway Wed 17-Apr-13 09:24:38

She's wonderful, Nicholas. And so, so, so, so right.

NicholasTeakozy Wed 17-Apr-13 09:15:10

To get back to the OP, if the current crop of 'celebrity atheists' such as Dawkins, Harris etc are a bit too erm, light and fluffy, why not try Bigot Vanquisher. Definitely NSFW, and DO NOT watch if easily offended as she doesn't take any prisoners. grin

Isabeller Wed 17-Apr-13 07:32:28

Please do a QM thread ICBINEG flowers

PedroYoniLikesCrisps Wed 17-Apr-13 07:22:38

also impressed by quantum mechanics- would love to understand this

Anyone who understands quantum mechanics doesn't understand quantum mechanics grin

EllieArroway Wed 17-Apr-13 00:19:19

I understand this might be a 'ickle' bit difficult for you to understand ICBINEG

Oh boy.......! I see what you mean! Not unlike, "I suppose it's too much to expect you to have read any Marx". No dear, it's not given that I had Marx coming out of my ears when I was studying for my BA in Modern History hmm

Patronising twazzocks.

EllieArroway Wed 17-Apr-13 00:09:27

Here. Could really use a physicist on there. Good for a laugh if nothing else - we have the proven existence of fire breathing dragons and everything!

ICBINEG Wed 17-Apr-13 00:02:22

oh it must mean young earth creationism right?

Ill have a look but tbh I find it really depressing how utterly scientifically illiterate people are on here....

ICBINEG Tue 16-Apr-13 23:59:45

YEC? I have been QMing on the toddler past life experiences in I haven't gotten out any maths yet smile

EllieArroway Tue 16-Apr-13 23:50:56

Icbineg That it is! Have you been keeping up with the hilarious ramblings on the YEC thread?

I'd also like to hear about QM - alert me if there's ever a thread where you're talking about it.

Why the hell don't we have a Science section on MN? There's loads of yer actual scientist types amongst MNers that I'd love to be able to talk to without the idiotic objections of certain religious types getting in the way.

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