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The Muslim Tearoom

(1000 Posts)
HardlyEverHoovers Wed 20-Mar-13 15:25:06

Salaams/peace to all! I'm already missing our old thread, so taking the bull by the horns and opening our very own Muslim Tearoom, all welcome (non-Muslims too of course), to chat, share, ask questions etc etc. Imagine a cosy cafe with floor cushions, tea and coffee of all kinds, and lovely cakes! Please join me!

nailak Fri 26-Apr-13 01:12:31

I know plenty of Muslims who have family members who do spiritual magic stuff, is called hassad or jadu and the following of pirs etc is a spiritual thing that salafis wahhabis would disagree is from Islam.

Basically there are significant exceptions to the rules you are quoting. It is also well documented that the Islamic revival bucks the secular trend, I'm not gonna get my course books out now, but maybe tomorrow!

There are also interesting cases such as Israel which is a secular state yet based on religious idealogies, many may not consider themselves religious yet they believe in the right of the Jews to the land based on biblical concepts.

crescentmoon Fri 26-Apr-13 05:38:59

Your last point had me grinning cote - we shall see who is halfway to what.

Good point naila about Israel. I often wonder where the atheists were then when that was going on. I think it was less to do with religion and more about assuaging Europe's guilt over the Holocaust and ancient anti semitism - only it was decided the Palestinian should atone for the 6million Jews dead and lose their land not Germany give up a chunk of theirs.

As for evil eye hasad etc yes there are people who believe in amulets , hand of Fatima, etc. my parents weren't all that bothered by it but we had some relatives we would only tell our bad news too never good news! and i still find myself doing that as an adult with my in laws some people. grin I also half think there is a jinn in my house that is eating socks because its always one brother of each pair ever going missing. And i have found it moves with me into the washing machine of every house iv ever lived in!

(Or it could be I'm very disorganised yes yes I should consider that too alrite)

fuzzy I was late for the bus yday going home and tried out 'innalalillah' 'from God we came' - it certainly puts things in perspective. Better than saying £!# !!!!!! seeing the bus drive off. I also feel I'm constantly treading water with regards to practise *fuzzy but my cousins would call me the religious one. Or, more often, 'I thought you were supposed to be the religious one!?' Lol.

crescentmoon Fri 26-Apr-13 06:28:40

Wrt the negation and affirmation of the muslim declaration of faith- i respect different elements in Judaism and Christianity because they are the people of the book, they came first and i worship the God Abraham taught. i wince at all the rules in judaism but saying that i trust a kosher stamp more than a halal stamp- though iv mainly given up meat now. i also respect those polytheistic religions that teach about actions having consequences eg Hinduism/ Buddhism. though their focus is about reincarnation its their self discipline I admire.

Not saying self discipline is the preserve of religions either before cote gets her back up.

crescentmoon Sat 27-Apr-13 08:52:56

salams all. clearlydad you mentioned something about comic books, have you heard about the 99 series? a muslim comic book series about young superheroes - boys and girls - based on the 99 attributes of God. apparently its very successful - the series partnered with DC Comics the Justice League and has just started animated shows last month. have a read through the website! fuzzy i think your girls would enjoy it, naila, you too.

NewPerspective Sat 27-Apr-13 21:23:33

The 99 series is meant to be pretty cool... I've read about it on the internet, but never known where to get hold of the actual comics.

nailak Sat 27-Apr-13 21:50:23

I have never hears of it before crescent! it looks great but it feels a bit weird, giving Allah's attributes to people....

crescentmoon Sun 28-Apr-13 09:35:17

yeah i thought so too naila but we do it often though. you know that title people who memorise the whole Quran get? Hafiz? well actually its from one of the 99 names of God - Al Hafiz - the Preserver. we confuse the title 'someone who has memorised the quran by heart' with its linguistic meaning which is 'preserver'.

my DD once complained that her two brothers had prophet's names (both from the Old Testament) but she didnt have one. and i told her that her name was from one of the names of God and it was as special! iv seen lots of girls names like that: the name Rahma from Ar Rahman (The Most Gracious), the name Rahima from Ar Rahim (the Most Merciful), the name Salama from As Salam (the Giver of Peace), Aziza from Al Aziz (the Mighty), Latifa from Al Latif (the Gentle), Halima from Al Halim (the Forbearing), Adila from al Adl (the Just) and so on.

off the top of my head i couldnt think of any boy's names that didnt first begin with Abd: Abdullah (servant of God), Abdurrahman (servant of the most Merciful), Abdulhalim, abdussalam, abdullatif, abdulhalim etc... the only boys name i could think of used without the Abd at the begin is Malik from Al Malik (the King), i think that using one of the 99 is fine as long as the Al is not put in front of the name.

iv tried to watch a few clips of the cartoon on youtube, apparently the first few episodes is on yahoo maktoub but i wasnt able to watch from my pc.

if dear lost is reading please check your private messages!

crescentmoon Sun 28-Apr-13 09:52:06

ok heres a thing thats been bothering me recently,

my kids will eat vegetables at my mums house, great big pieces of broccoli, cauliflower, peas, carrots, etc with curry or rice. but they wont eat what i make even if i use the SAME recipes - how do i get them to eat more vegetables? i actually try to dice them small to 'hide' them but my mum doesnt ever do that and they GULP her food down. what do i do?

fuzzywuzzy Sun 28-Apr-13 12:29:49

It's grandma's house they will eat her food and at friends houses whereas they'll be picky as anything at home.

How old are they? You could serve up your nomal food and refuse alternatives.

You could include them in food prep, that usually peaks an interest in consuming the food too.

Dunno what else.

I'm not comfortable with that comic either, its giving the attributes of Allah to the characters, when we name our children or title a person for example Hafiz, we are calling them Hufadh-e-quran the preservers of the Quran, not generally the preserver of everything. Or in the hope they will manifest the qualities of that name, we are not attributing the qualities of that name to the person. (does that make sense?).

The comics do, I'm going to steer clear I think.

crescentmoon Mon 29-Apr-13 21:49:16

Very true fuzzy they eat food at other people's houses and at grandmas they'd never try at home! I'm going to be more 'either this or you go hungry!'. Otherwise they'll be like my brothers and just want beans on toast or chips all the time in a few years!

My anjum Anand vegetarian cookbook is fab - some of the recipes are so delicious you forget there is no meat at all. There's a hadith which really spurred me 'do not allow your stomachs to become graveyards' - about eating meat. Obviously not to forbid meat entirely though one sis took it as far as that. but along the same ones as the famous hadith 'no human being ever filled a vessel worse than his stomach'.

As for the attributes I get what yu mean that we hope they manifest the qualities of that name. None of my 3 are the age yet to be interested but maybe in a short while with ds1 - even the animation series is interesting with completely different frames of references to what kids are used to. Begins with the story of the sacking of Abbasid Baghdad by the Mongols.
Fascinating period in history. They decimated the muslim lands and peoples and then the mongols themselves became muslims within 30 years. Was it the first time in history a conqueror took the religion of the people they conquered or was that with the pagan Romans and Christianity? I'm not sure of which came before which in the latter case.

hope all is well inshaallah for everyone. I haven't been to dhikr or mawlid for a few weeks with one thing and another so I'm hoping to make both this week for an emaan boost. I feel I'm slipping on a few things. is a good website to find events/talks/hadras in one's area. Whenever we move DH tracks down mosques whereas I always start looking for local tariqahs (sufi orders) and where they're based. Iv never committed to one mainly for logistics reasons but I'm leaning towards one now alhamdulliah and I'm excited about taking the step.

CoteDAzur Mon 06-May-13 14:56:52

You have gone and killed the tread with all this food talk smile

Don't you have anything controversial to say? Even stuff you don't think is controversial will probably do wink

nailak Mon 06-May-13 16:36:48

Anyone seen this


and this

crescentmoon Tue 07-May-13 09:26:33

Good article naila thanks for that. Along the same lines as this too.

When its from its own demographic the media will look for other causes: mental illness/ stress especially in the case of family annihilators: those men who kill their wife and children and then commit suicide. 'What drove him to it?', 'he snapped' , when it is from another ethnicity then it is blamed as something intrinsic to their race/culture/religion.
The article you posted had me blinking a few times: its strange to read it aimed at another group!

As for the hijabi on the guitar? Cringe! I don't know why!

anyway I'd love to know what you all think- do we apply the laws of diya amongst ourselves or are they part of the body of fiqh that require a qadi and a court to decide.

crescentmoon Tue 07-May-13 09:51:54

I ask because extended family were in such a situation and ended up paying diya-which my older brother also contributed to - without any legal involvement just between the victims family( at their demand) and them. It was a hefty amount and I wondered even fiqh wise if it was allowed to be demanded of our side.

nailak Tue 07-May-13 18:20:35

what is diya? blood money?

I think that the criminal rulings require a judge to sentence, but I am not sure, I cannot see the harm in that if you have wronged someone you give them compensation according to shariah without a qaadi, however if you extropolate that to other situations and punishments there could be serious repurcussions.

CoteDAzur Tue 07-May-13 18:40:06

On a lighter note, I saw something and thought you would enjoy it. Everyone please look at my pictures grin

crescentmoon Tue 07-May-13 20:46:03

very true about extrapolation because of those kangaroo courts in countries and communities that apply criminal rulings without fiqh knowledge, civil authority or basic justice. e.g those tribal elders in pakistan or the militia in northern mali driven out recently

as for diya, not going into too much detail but a relative of mine caused an accident that killed another person whilst abroad visiting relatives.the family of the man who died were muslim and came to our relatives directly and said they wanted diya rather than prison as they were very poor and the man killed had been the only one with a job supporting lots of them. knowing my relative had come from the west they set a very steep price and for that his siblings and a few other cousins helped him put together the money to pay. the surprising thing was that it was led by my relatives who are not religious - they dont pray, keep halal, etc - but they had enough taqwa and respect for silat ur rahm to do that even though it was not legally enforceable either in the country it happened in nor in their countries they were paying from. one of them even put off his wedding until this year to be able to contribute. but there was no qadhi, no representatives, no scholars/imams involved - just sorted out between 2 families. i felt uncomfortable with it for that reason though it was their right to compensation in fiqh terms.

i was talking to one sister who had a similar situation in her family and she said that in her parents country diya was important to replace the very strong cultural blood feuds where if someone caused the death of another person then their family would go after any relative of the guilty person's family, who would then go after a relative of the victims family and it would turn into a cycle of violence. so in cases of manslaughter or murder elders would get involved and set diya and enforce it from the relatives of the guilty party to settle things quickly before things would escalate if they felt the revenge taken was disproportionate to the original offence.

nailak Tue 07-May-13 21:06:58

cote that is so ridiculous it has me laughing out loud!

crescent i understand the wisdom behind diya, and I think that this outcome is better over all rather then prison, for both parties. I don't know if situations like this require imam, i mean contracts such as nikkah and talaaq dont?

CoteDAzur Tue 07-May-13 21:14:49

nailak - I know grin

It doesn't translate very well, though. The confusion is more plausible in Turkish where it is between raket (raquette) and rekat (rakat).

crescentmoon Tue 07-May-13 21:18:08

ok on a lighter note funny cartoon cote. 2 rackets instead of 2 rakahs ha.

i have a funny joke to tell about a convert. a man was being taught how to pray and was told at the end he must give the Taslim to the Kiraman Katibeen on either side of his shoulders. he said who/ what are they? they told him the one on the right shoulder records all the good acts and words and the one on the left shoulder records all the bad acts and words. when the men got up to do the congregational prayer he went through it with them but after it ended said 'i said salam alaikum to my right but i ignored the enemy on my left!'.

another funny one: a tribe in africa had christian missionaries and muslim 'callers' come to them at the same time. they listened to them and said 'both of them are good which one to follow?'. they decided on a show of hands and when it came to it there was an even split. they said the ones who wanted to keep their second wives took Islam and the ones who wanted to keep drinking alcohol took Christianity and the tribe went half/ half based on that! grin.

crescentmoon Tue 07-May-13 21:21:14

(just looked at the post i made before the joke one - the last sentence is extremely long sorry!)

crescentmoon Wed 08-May-13 12:11:28

do they have such a thing in Turkey cote or had you heard of it? when a crime is committed is it against the state or against the victim? if a family wishes to forgive or seek a non prison settlement for in a case involving murder/manslaughter would the state still prosecute or is the final word with them?

CoteDAzur Wed 08-May-13 12:19:47

Crime is against the victim but the state would still prosecute even if the victim's family is bribed or intimidated into silence. As is the case in all Western law, I believe.

crescentmoon Wed 08-May-13 12:50:46

thats the worry isnt it - can the family be intimidated. do you consider the diya a bribe or a compensation for the loss of that family member? for us it was by being compelled but it was either cough up or see our relative languish in an awful prison in that country. as for forgiveness, for the family itself to say 'forgive' is one thing but when it is someone else ordering them to forgive thats a completely different case.

CoteDAzur Wed 08-May-13 21:48:11

The idea sits wrong with me for a variety of reasons:

- Money can't "compensate" for the loss of a loved one. The very idea is absurd and offensive.
- It creates a two-tier system where the rich don't get punished for major crimes like murder.
- It opens the system to intimidation and bribery

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