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The Muslim Tearoom

(1000 Posts)
HardlyEverHoovers Wed 20-Mar-13 15:25:06

Salaams/peace to all! I'm already missing our old thread, so taking the bull by the horns and opening our very own Muslim Tearoom, all welcome (non-Muslims too of course), to chat, share, ask questions etc etc. Imagine a cosy cafe with floor cushions, tea and coffee of all kinds, and lovely cakes! Please join me!

HardlyEverHoovers Sat 06-Apr-13 20:52:55

yeah that sounds right Nailak. I think this must be a challenge for some people depending on their experiences, inshAllah crescent if this is a personal situation you are able to fulfil the rights of both these people and not have to choose!

nailak Sat 06-Apr-13 21:19:50

I know a few people who were brought up by gps, someone i know is a twin so her gm brought her up and her bro wa brought up by dm, now when it is time to get married and stuff is causing issues. She has basically had to choose one over the other.

crescentmoon Sat 06-Apr-13 21:23:57

Alhamdullillah naila, hardly, jazakhallah khair! work in progress....

recently read this.... so checked it out and now making a plan to head to their store in westfield shepherds bush soon to get some. does knowing this make a difference to any of you or were you following the hayah line not the wudhu line?

lost hope you've had your baby by now sis inshaallah. please keep us posted!

nailak Sat 06-Apr-13 21:33:12

i find it weird wearing nail varnish, like advertising your on your period! lol but when i was pregnant i did.

crescentmoon Sat 06-Apr-13 21:41:40

yeah! thats why i didnt like to wear nail polish too i found it embarrassing because automatically its not just your DH - where i think it is a subtle way to say 'not this week!' grin but everyone else would see and figure it out too!

HardlyEverHoovers Sun 07-Apr-13 19:42:05

Haha, agree on the nail polish front, never wore it anyway as bite by nails and don't really want to draw attention to that! I'm slightly mystified by those little works of art people get put on their nails, if I had that I'd feel like I couldn't do anything with my hands.
Love having henna done though, don't suppose that's any different really.
How come you wore it when pregnant Nailak, don't get the connection?

nailak Sun 07-Apr-13 21:16:35

someone say something slightly controversial, lets add spice to the tea! lol

crescentmoon Sun 07-Apr-13 22:09:58

Lol Spice to the tea?

How about this qurani group? The hadith rejectors? DH has a friend who is one and the children of a few family friends have also declared themselves quranis? I am curious about how they practise without any recourse to hadith. Either narrated by the companions (Sunni) or the ahlul bayt (Shia)...

nailak Sun 07-Apr-13 22:22:17

yeah I have also come accross a few who call themselves the submitters, but it seems they believe in another messenger after Muhammad sas,, not a prophet a messenger. And they believe saying Muhammad sas name in shahadah is shirk, I am also interested in how they pray, calculate zakaat etc.

crescentmoon Sun 07-Apr-13 22:55:34

Shirk really?That's more than i knew. it's interesting what happens when consensus breaks down at the other end (opposite to the takfiri end). What about inheritance? how do they fast? How do they make hajj? the quran has enough detail to set the foundation but really its in the hadith books where you get the details and the explanations.i think of all the strong sunnahs that are not in the quran and wonder even just about the basic hygiene stuff which isn't in the quran but we still see as fundamentals.

nailak Mon 08-Apr-13 01:08:19


nailak Mon 08-Apr-13 01:09:51

Due to a general unawareness of the fact that Abraham was the original messenger of Islam, many so-called Muslims challenge God: "If the Quran is complete and fully detailed (as claimed by God), where can we find the number of Rak`ahs (units) in each contact prayer (Salat)?" We learn from the Quran that all religious practices of Islam were already established before the Quran's revelation (8:35, 9:54, 16:123, 21:73, 22:27, 28:27). Verse 16:123 is direct proof that all religious practices in Islam were intact when Muhammad was born. Muhammad was enjoined to "follow the religion of Abraham." If I ask you to buy a color TV, it is assumed that you know what a color TV is. Similarly, when God enjoined Muhammad to follow the practices of Abraham (16:123), such practices must have been well known.

Another proof of divine preservation of the Islamic practices given to Abraham is the "Universal Acceptance" of such practices. There is no dispute concerning the number of Rak`ahs in all five daily prayers. This proves the divine preservation of Salat. The Quran's mathematical code confirms the number of Rak`ahs in the five prayers 2, 4, 4, 3, and 4, respectively. The number 24434 is a multiple of 19.

The Quran deals only with practices that were distorted. For example, the distorted ablution is restored in 5:6 to its original four steps. The tone of voice during the contact prayers (Salat) was distorted - many Muslims pray silently. This was corrected in the Quran, 17:110. The fasting during Ramadan was modified in the Quran to allow intercourse during the night (2:187). Zakat is restored in 6:141, and Hajj is restored to the four correct months (see Appendix 15).

crescentmoon Mon 08-Apr-13 08:22:43

Naila you quoted that from the website right? I think thats so incorrect what did the makkans do ibadah wise before islam went to them? Where you find universal acceptance on Sunnah is because of 1) quantity of hadith on Salah- the hadith on what constituted the unit of prayer are multiple, many witnesses saw and then narrated it onwards 2) strength of chains of transmission of those hadith -strong hadith 3) consensus of the early Muslims including Shia. That's why you see the same unit of Salah the standing bowing standing prostration sitting prostration, and the Fatiha to begin. Same with the rest of the 5 pillars- what you see in common with all people is because of those hadith that had multiple chains of transmission and strong chains of transmission. Then the differences are to do with single witness single transmission line hadith and also those hadith which have 'good' or 'weak' chains....

HardlyEverHoovers Mon 08-Apr-13 10:10:58

As well as all the more obvious ways in which this seems to be wrong, without the hadith you cannot always understand the spirit in which the commands of the Quran are to be understood. For example for some of the 'controversial' (from a non-Muslim point of view) verses in the Qur'an that refer to the way women should be treated, or that refer to the unbelievers, you need the hadith to understand how those were applied at the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) to guide us to how they should be applied in our current situation.

nailak Mon 08-Apr-13 15:06:07

Obviously I agree with you,

but have you ever seen a Jew Pray?

they also pray sunrise and sunset, even the recitation seems familiar. If you watch the vid they have the evidences of how to pray from previous scriptures.

They also seem to have some of the names of Allah.

Hajj was also done pre islam?

crescentmoon Mon 08-Apr-13 15:36:13

jazakhallah naila, post later but just to say it sounds very beautiful. reading the translation and the way they praise sounds very similar to some prayers we have. i always remember from sirah how the makkans disliked how Muhammad (pbuh) and the muslims prayed, offended by the sight of an arab man - one of their proud people - bowing down and putting their heads on the ground. 'you are not slaves' they would say. as for the Jews even the fast in ramadan was a prescription 'as it was prescribed to those before you ....'.

peacefuloptimist Mon 08-Apr-13 18:53:21

Salamalaykum sisters

How are you all? Sorry to just jump in mid conversation but I really need advice. Im going on umrah end of May/beginning of June time (inshallah) and I am really undecided about taking my ds who will be 9 months old when we go. My DH thinks its a bad idea and is not safe for him to go. Any one had experience of taking a baby under the age of 1 on umrah? What did you find difficult or easy? In general anyone who has gone with young children what would you advise? I really don't want to leave him behind as I am breastfeeding him and would like to continue till he is at least 1 years old and am worried I will have to get him used to the bottle early in preparation for my departure. Im just going for 1 week by the way.

nailak Mon 08-Apr-13 19:58:10

walaykum salaam

alhamdulillah you are going to umrah! There is a haj and umrah forum on where you will get lots of useful advice inshallah.

crescentmoon Mon 08-Apr-13 21:45:09

salams optimist. i think its alot easier to take a baby/young child on umrah than it is on Hajj especially if you are going during the off peak times (after Umrah visa season starts until Ramadan). i found with my two the crowds were alot less - though still numerous! - but you could breathe abit and take in the atmosphere and sights as well as complete the umrah.
i would advise you not to wean him until you come back from umrah in June and just take him with you - it will make the flight easier - dont have to faff around with bottles. it will make your hotel stay and travelling around easier as well. take lots of baby food though unless you are staying somewhere you know will have food or can prepare food for your baby.
try and stay in a hotel as close to the haram as possible - spend your best money if you can. because it will be SWELTERING and you will be going back and forth back and forth through the day to the Haram al Sharif and ifyou have to walk alot you will be tired. i found as well i could spend time praying then quickly get back to my hotel to put my dc down for a nap or feed them easily. it would be harder at a hotel further away from the Kaaba. BUT the hotels close to the haram are megabucks - we are actually trying to save up to go next year and already we've decided to try and go during summer before ramadan as even then it can be expensive. DH as well when it came to hajj and umrah decided to spend as much as we could afford on it so we could worry less and just focus on worship rather than 'how to go back and forth, where to eat, ...'.
when we went we booked everything separately rather than going through one tour operator. i make dua for the sister who gave me the advice to do that. i booked our flight tickets 5 months ahead, booked hotel a few weeks after that and then the only thing we needed a tour operator for was to get the umrah visas as you are not allowed to apply directly to the saudi embassy in london for an umrah visa as an had to pay charge as well as the visa price but alhamdullillah as we saved alot of money with the other parts.

il tell you something funny when i went on umrah i really enjoyed talking and speaking to people from lots of places more easier than during HAJJ as that was so rushed. we stayed in an iranian pilgrims hotel in Madinah and the people there were lovely, mostly Shia iranians but they were so warm and kind to my dc. i get heartsick when i hear talk on the news of what happened to iraq happening to iran. aoothoobillah min thalik. i also got to sit with alot of turkish pilgrims and i really grew to like turks again - during hajj the turks were notorious along with the malays and the nigerians for being absolutely single minded in getting wherever it is they want to go - whatever happened they would NEVER let go of each other so either you need to walk around them or wait for them to pass lol. alhamdullillah it was fun though! but during umrah again my kids - before i had dc3 - were constantly being petted, kissed, giving treats to, and i enjoyed umrah for that relaxing experience alhamdullillah after the hurly burly of hajj. i cant wait to go again!

LostAndNeverFound Tue 09-Apr-13 08:24:35

Salaam everyone, sorry for the hijack I haven't read the full thread since I last came on. I'm just sat in the labour ward waiting to be induced. Came for my fortnightly growth scan yesterday and he hasn't grown in two weeks and they wouldn't let me home, I was admitted straight away! I'll post once I've had him inshallah. Please pray for a safe delivery for me.

crescentmoon Tue 09-Apr-13 08:37:00

Mashaallah very happy to hear that dear lost, il be making dua for you my sis and will prioritise reading Surah maryam this morning hopefully at some point to pray that you have a safe delivery for your baby inshaallah.

hardly I totally agreed with your post yday as well that hadith explain and put into context most verses of the quran.i dislike translations that involve explanation without clearly delineating the explanation part from translation part. I feel that with muhsin khans translation that it has inbuilt tafsir/ exegesis and the translation should be in one column and explanation below as footnotes so as to separate the opinions of the translator from the text. I think that's why there's such a large scale amount of young Muslims here in the west who have been studying Arabic when their parents didnt learn it in order to understand the quran by themselves even without translation. Madinah, Cairo and Damascus used to be the popular places to ad spend summer holidays at the language institutes but now Damascus is out unfortunately. I get that part of the submitters page about going back to the quran ourselves - but to say no hadith is to ignore a large part of what makes the deen work.

Though learning quranic Arabic doesn't mean you'll be able to converse in Arabic with your regular man on the Arab street- someone told me it was like walking around in London speaking Shakespearean English lol.

HardlyEverHoovers Tue 09-Apr-13 19:16:15

Ooooh, very exciting lost, may Allah may it easy for you and bring you baby safely into the world, will be making dua for you.

LostAndNeverFound Thu 11-Apr-13 00:39:36

Asalaam alaikum sisters. Is there room for one more in the tea room?! My lovely little boy was born today at 6pm. After a hideously slow induction followed by an hour labour! Marsallah he is gorgeous. Thanks for all your prayers.

crescentmoon Thu 11-Apr-13 08:12:14

Mashaallah tabarakallah habibti, mabruk mabruk mabruk! Congratulations my dear sister. May Allah give you a long life for your children and give them long lives for you ameen.and make them a coolness for your eyes, and may they be the fruit from which good is hoped dear lost. Xxxx
(Ps Check your inbox!)

beeny Thu 11-Apr-13 08:17:16

Hi does anyone know a good app for teaching children namaaz?

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