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The new pope

(122 Posts)
PedroPonyLikesCrisps Wed 13-Mar-13 23:41:34

So this is the guy who is strongly against gay marriage and adoption and of whom the Argentine president said that the church under his rule in Argentina was reminiscent of the inquisition and the dark ages.

Is this really the kind of guy we want running the most powerful religious organisation in the world?

LizzyDay Tue 19-Mar-13 21:42:46

Er, I suppose my opinion would pretty much be exactly what I wrote in my last post. Just substitute the word 'church' for 'religion'.

WhatKindofFool Tue 19-Mar-13 22:15:53

Anti-religious atheists seem to think that they are intellectually superior to religious people. All this talk of the 1 billion Catholics who suffer at the blind following of the Pope. God bless all us poor idiots!

hiddenhome Tue 19-Mar-13 22:40:06

<crawls along the carpet suffering and wringing hands in front of statue of Our Lady>

<wishes Richard Dawkins had actually been elected Pope> confused

hiddenhome Tue 19-Mar-13 22:41:25


Most of the Catholics I encounter seem to be happy souls and that includes our PP who is quite old and suffers from a serious health condition.

WhatKindofFool Tue 19-Mar-13 22:58:26


PedroPonyLikesCrisps Wed 20-Mar-13 07:01:16

Ok, so what I'm understanding from hidden is that, generally, Catholics have no problem with gay people as long as they keep it to themselves and don't act upon it. What I'm struggling to get is how you can think this is tolerant. Isn't everyone supposed to be loved equally and have equal rights? Doesn't sound very balanced to me.

The reason, hidden, that I keep coming back to homosexuality is that it's the topic of the thread. You'll remember you almost dragged me into a child abuse debate but I think we managed to avoid that!

WhatKindofFool Wed 20-Mar-13 07:48:05

Pedro As far as I am aware, all of the main Christian faiths share the same view of homosexuality as the Catholic Church. The Anglican Church is no different in this respect.

I'm not saying that I agree with it (in fact, I don't agree) but I don't understand why some people focus on the Catholic religion instead of Christianity as a whole (and many other religions). I guess it is more socially acceptable to voice an intolerance of Catholics Than it is of Jews or Muslims.

JakeBullet Wed 20-Mar-13 07:59:55

I am Catholic and I don't care about the sexuality of anyone else. That is their business and not mine.
If we are talking about acting on desire then according to most religion it seems sex outside of trying to procreate is a sin. Do we stress about that with heterosexual relationships? No we dont so why would sex in a loving homosexual relationship be any different.
Each to their own and both our parish priests would say the same. Everyone is welcome regardless of their sexual orientation.

The thing for me ( and why I appreciate the Quakers) is why you cannot come together as a community, whole also allowing people to live, guided by his or her conscience.
If we are to be judged, surely there is no-one on earth worthy or capable of making those judgments in relation to spiritual well being, as we are totally incapable, whether we be the pope or the person next door, of looking into other peoples hearts, to see what truely lies within.


WhatKindofFool Wed 20-Mar-13 13:26:25

I agree with you maggie.

sieglinde Wed 20-Mar-13 14:37:36

AGREE with Jake. None of us are perfect. IMHO, Jesus takes other sins MUCH more seriously, especially sins of uncharity to the poor and judgement/bullying of others. That's not to say you can do as you like... but I'd worry more about the gluttony of the West than about same-sex love. It's still love.

marjproops Wed 20-Mar-13 17:53:09

whatkindoffool. good points.

does anyone know what exactly ARE the views from Jews/muslims etc on these issues?

WhatKindofFool Wed 20-Mar-13 18:26:03

As far as I understand, Islam is absolutely against homosexuality. Judaism varies depending upon how orthodox you are - orthodox is against but other sections of the religion are far more liberal.

marjproops Wed 20-Mar-13 18:36:25

Okay, so why isnt anyone slamming the muslim faith then? (not that anyone should)

why? cos its not pc. and anyone who does is rascist/bigotted/prejudiced according to the pc brigade.

not saying anyone on here is, Im just wondering
why it seems okay to slam the Christian/catholic church, thats okay then?

please correct me if Im wrong.

same with stand up comics.
they cant say 'englishman irishman scotsman ' jokes any more or Jewish jokes ,or unless you're Lenny Henry cant do a Jamaican accent or any other if youre not of that culture/colour, but its still okay (Jimmy Carr, Russel Brand and Frankie Boylke Im looking at you) to still make fun of religion.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Wed 20-Mar-13 19:14:06

"why? cos its not pc. and anyone who does is rascist/bigotted/prejudiced according to the pc brigade."

I don't agree, I think it's because generally English people know (or think they know) more about Christianity than other religions. Personally, I treat them all in a similar manner. They are all belief systems with a supernatural leader.

As it happens though, this thread was directly regarding the Pope and thus Catholicism.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Wed 20-Mar-13 19:16:22

There's also plenty of comedians who take on the unPC jokes, but as it happens, religion is just generally quite easy to make fun of if you step back and look at it objectively.

I'm sure if you do a search using 'the keyword islam or Muslim, then you will get several threads where they are criticised.
As for Judaism, have you ever read one of the circuscion threads?

LizzyDay Wed 20-Mar-13 20:17:03

Yes, there are plenty of threads where issues such as circumcision and Islamic face-covering and women's rights are very hotly debated indeed. I suppose people are more likely to react to things they come directly in contact with or which have a lot of media exposure, like the new Pope being elected.

In the case of Christianity, most of us in the UK (whether Christian or not) will have been exposed to it via school, and things like weddings and funerals, and so are fairly well versed in what being cultural Christian is all about.

marjproops Wed 20-Mar-13 20:35:18

I know this particular thread is about the pope, admittedly i havent read many other threads on this forum (only recently discovered it!).

I do know an old friend who taught religion at her school and it was fine to most parents to teach about different Faiths but NOT the Christian faith. ???

LizzyDay Wed 20-Mar-13 21:45:25

marj - might the problem have been to do with the distinction between 'learning about' and 'worship'? I can't see that most parents would have a problem with children learning about the major world faiths in the same way as they learn about geography and history. It's a different thing for children to be expected to sing Christian hymns, pray, and talk about God and Jesus as if they exist.

marjproops Wed 20-Mar-13 21:51:51

I dont know, this was a UK school. I would have thought it was about the learning?

I personally never had a prob with DC learning about different faiths at school, and I homeschool now, and teach her same. we look at all faiths and cultures.

Im church of England but If DC ever 'feels' anything then its up to her, im not going to force my beliefs down her, i try and guide her but not force (if that makes sense...sorry, just had a mid-week tot and feel a bit woozy!)things. most religious teachings are for the good, and good respectful guidelines?

Of course Id like it if she stayed with mine but then again when i was old enough to decide for myself, id been bought up in a different belief system and felt the Cof E was the place for me.

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