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hideous hymns, vocal vicars and theatrical thuribles. Religious Chat Thread Number 6!

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nickelbabe Sun 17-Feb-13 19:24:28

Welcome to the Religion Chat thread.
We're mostly Christians, but all are welcome.
a lovely soace to talk about church life, spiritual journeys and stuff in general.
It's not about debate, it's about chat.
Come oldies and newbies!

this is the previous thread

Bluetinkerbell Sun 17-Feb-13 20:02:47

<gets comfy on the sofa with a brew and biscuit>

SESthebrave Sun 17-Feb-13 20:10:45

Thanks for the new thread Nickel smile

niminypiminy Sun 17-Feb-13 20:29:13

Fab title nickel. <settles down with cup of tea and biscuit oh no it's Lent

nickelbabe Sun 17-Feb-13 20:44:32

I only changed one word.

biscuit are not real so you can have as many as you like grin

MaryBS Mon 18-Feb-13 07:57:19

I missed that we had a new thread - copied from old:

I wish my church had a sense of belonging for the older kids. Why do the adults (without kids) say "its their age, they're going to drift away". Mine is drifting away because what they do at church for youth is absolutely ZILCH! Had a long chat with my vicar last week where I suggested I drop all other work and become youth minister, I feel that strongly about it! (So, I would be Reader only to youth, no more leading/preaching at normal services, I would stop producing the newsletter, I would stop being assistant treasurer and I would stop running the house group). I don't think she wants that, but if no-one comes forward, and we HAVE asked, radical problems require radical solutions! Anyway, rant over!

As an RC, I stopped going to confession when I went one time and all the priest said was "very good". Actually it wasn't very good, which was why I was confessing. It made me want to confess something like murder just to see whether he said very good! blush. At Reader selection I was asked my views on confession, and I said that I confessed before God, but if there was something I needed to discuss with a priest, I would do so - got told "that is a very protestant answer" blush grin - don't think it was what they were expecting, I think that was supposed to be my "hard and challenging question"! LOL

MadHairDay Mon 18-Feb-13 10:04:40

Oooh lovely nickel <grabs biscuits off niminy>

Good idea to change lovely to vocal so they all alliterate in themselves! Alliteration is important to me, doncha know grin

Mary, yes, yes, yes. So many churches seem to be this way sad We're lucky with the church we're in at the moment, the pathfinders group is quite good and they have a well attended youth group. DD seems fairly happy with it all. Trying to persuade them to take the young people to Soul Survivor - it can do wonders for this age group and their commitment to God. Your suggestion about being youth minister will hopefully get the leadership thinking and realising something does need to be done. When we have dc approaching this age we see the importance of it all.

Confession: I'd never really given it a lot of thought, not being RC, but since we formed our core team here we have a kind of thing where we are accountable to each other spiritually, and there's a sort of way we're confessing, it's very cathartic and definitely makes you think about what you are doing and especially about how much time you are giving to God etc. There is something in it I think - not sure how I'd feel about the traditional RC confession with a priest behind a grille though....but I can see how it does work for some.

SES, happy birthday for yesterday and lovely dh to sort you out a party smile

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 10:09:40

oh, mary, that would be fabulous if you could be youth minister.
some of the things you do would still be doable - the newsletter for example.

but how exciting would that be! I'm imagining visits to schools and cplloges and youth evenings and evening services just for them etc.

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 10:15:09

I wonder if the origins of confession had more to do with the priest keeping tabs on everyone than it did naming sins.

I can see it being useful for makingsure you see and recognize what you've done, but how much would youactually name when it came to it?

thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts Mon 18-Feb-13 10:20:19

Oh new thread - lovely. Shouldn't be here as should be sorting out funeral but a virtual biscuit and cuppa would be great. Thank you!

I really like the idea of a breakfast club style junior church - cafe church for the under 12s perhaps? Feeding bodies as well as minds and building community at the same time.

SES - happy Birthday and Mary the Youth Minister idea sounds fab.

niminypiminy Mon 18-Feb-13 10:36:34

Mary the youth minister thing does sound great -- what age group are you thinking of -- once they are old enough to go to Soul Survivor there are more things out there for them, but I think the 11-14 age group is normally pretty poorly catered for.

Also I just don't know enough about this, but istm that things like Soul Survivor are great if that's the kind of thing you like -- it definitely wouldn't have been for me as a teenager. And they're also skewed towards a kind of charismatic-evangelical style of being a Christian which also won't be right for some teenagers. If you're all gothy and into painting your bedroom black and writing tortured poetry for example. I don't think this is going any more but it's an interesting, different model of how you might do church for teenagers/young adults.

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 10:54:18

I think the goths would suit my church style better! grin

maybe encourage them to learn instruments and set up a band.
you could incorporate history of church music too.
would be wonderful to get some young organists....

MaryBS Mon 18-Feb-13 11:15:16

I am thinking of the 11-16 age group. Which includes my 2. We used to have a youth minister, but he had to give up, and its not proving to be a priority it seems. The point I was trying to make to the church though is that someone should be doing these things, I really am not the ideal person to do it because of my children, it should be someone else. But if I see its not getting done, then I will quit all my other jobs to do it (so newsletter not possible grin )

MaryBS Mon 18-Feb-13 11:16:01

And mine are DEFINITELY not goths! grin

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 11:16:30

I know what put me off church when I was a teenager.
I was too old for Sunday school so did the whole service.
I always wanted to be in the choir but my mum wouldn't let me.

everyone I knew my age didn't go to church and I was bullied for going. it would have helped me for some of the persecuted christians in history to have been taught to me. I would have liked a church youth group rather than uniformed groups like guides. but one thing I hated was the born again attitude. the whole gushing jesus loves you speech and melty lovely christians.
a youth church in midweek that had proper grownup music and maybe even peer preachers would have been great.
so, not adults preaching to me about god's love and flower skipping but proper, gritty church that everyone played a part in.
so I didn't feel like the only normal teenage christian in the world.

all the youth groups in my area were rough and you couldn't even go if you were unpopular. but church things were happyclappy progressive and modern

a teenager knows everything so things that are supposed to appeal to the youth are normallypretty condescending.

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 11:21:15

I think your children are the ideal reason why you're perfect for the job actually.

they can help you see what's good and what's proper embarrassing. and they can help by being the first peer preachers or helpers. you do all the youth ministry work - the background, the publicity, the working with schools etc and most of the stuff, and they can be tje face of your 11-16s. they can lead it, help in it and ultimately let the youth see that it belongs to them, not some grownup who obviously knows nothing because how could they possibly know what it's like to be a teenager? they're so old

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 11:25:25

and let the kids guide you.

wgen you visit secondary schools, ask them what they want from church. why don't they go? what would bring them in?
play them music and ask what type they prefer forchurch. do they want pop/rock music for church or do they want organs and choirs?
if you get a split of opinion, you can do both in each "service"
try one over the other.
ask them what kind of language they want - read them the lord's prayer in different translations, quote different bibles, read them christian poetry etc.

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 11:28:11

I am probably willing to accept that today's youth don't necessarily want thees and thous, but I also think that what is seen as catering to today's teens is a step too far - it's trying too hard to be "in with the kids" and missing the mark by miles.

they think they're grownups, they want tobe treated to (a very watered down version of) grownupness

niminypiminy Mon 18-Feb-13 11:28:14

nickel you are so right about the gushing jesus loves you speech and melty lovely christians. I spent most of my teenage years in dire depression and running away from melty loveliness and gushing. It's not the goth thing in my link that I thought was particularly good, it was the willingness to speak to the dark side of yp's lives, not in a gushy, flower skipping kind of way, but in a proper, gritty way.

nickelbabe Mon 18-Feb-13 11:44:43

ooh tgis is interesting

I just found it looking for the fast show's christian lady

niminypiminy Mon 18-Feb-13 12:02:13

Nickel this one is for you smile

newlark Mon 18-Feb-13 12:26:24

Marking my place on the new thread smile am trying to cut down on MN for lent but am waiting in for phone call about emergency hosp appt for dd so having my first peek at threads for over a week as a diversion while I wait...

jaynebxl Mon 18-Feb-13 12:33:12

Just read that goth link ... Is anyone here from Cambridge? I thought that was still going on but it doesn't look like it from the calendar.

niminypiminy Mon 18-Feb-13 13:00:32

I'm in Cambridge -- actually I checked and 'on the edge' is still going on -- the web site has moved. <curious> are you in the Cambridge area too?

jaynebxl Mon 18-Feb-13 13:14:05


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