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Isn't it a bit weird that you have to believe in a god to join cubs, but it doesn't matter which god it is?

(31 Posts)
beansmum Thu 29-Nov-12 21:06:05

They can't ALL be real. Assuming you think one of them is real - why is an incorrect belief in another god better than an incorrect belief that there is no god at all?

KnittingChristmas Wed 05-Dec-12 22:02:07

grin I live in hope!

My local scout leader is desperate for me to join, and I've said I can't til they change the oath so we'll see what happens grin!

technodad Tue 04-Dec-12 22:15:41

It will take another 50 years until they get that modern!

KnittingChristmas Tue 04-Dec-12 19:50:14

The scout movement has obviously been reading Mumsnet grin.

I assume this means Republican atheists like myself can also drop the queen crap? grin

technodad Tue 04-Dec-12 07:13:59

KnittingChristmas Sat 01-Dec-12 20:21:41

LaCiccolina, don't you think atheists believe in kindness/importance of family/fellow man type things? smile

We just leave out the "and kill people if they don't believe in your god" type things which so many religions happily practise.

LaCiccolina Sat 01-Dec-12 08:52:58

Op, responding to orig question it's because the faiths more or less preach similar things, kindness /importance of family/ fellow man type tenets. So if u are of a faith u are following or understand or are learning to understand these concepts. Cubs was originally Christian when set up, whilst they have decided to broaden their world view somewhat they just didn't want to accept the view thier might not b a god. I have to commend them for being as accepting as they have even if some are still left out. More than other groups have been.

msrisotto Sat 01-Dec-12 08:47:27

Crescent apparently the whole swearing to god thing is fabricated/ highly exaggerated for films. link

crescentmoon Sat 01-Dec-12 08:46:33

Is the swearing option so necessary then if everyone can just affirm? That's interesting seeker

RooneyMara Sat 01-Dec-12 08:34:22

Yes I think you have to play it backwards though iyswim...rather than do my duty to 'God' they have to 'my God' which allows for different faiths and so on...I think that's a good thing and just ignore it, or don't say it if it doesn't apply to you.

The way I see it God is a concept, basically means 'what is good' but not some mystical being - just maybe a mystical or spiritual essence, somehow, a feeling, a sense of right, etc etc etc. Which I have no problem with at all.

I just don't subscribe to the people-based, church-based, ritual-based things that happen around it so much.

Try and do what is 'right' is what I teach my children, that should be enough.

seeker Sat 01-Dec-12 08:32:42

Sorry, pressed too soon. Atheists say "I do solemnly declare and affirm that the evidence....etc etc" As do lots of other people, including some Christians who won't take oaths because that implies that they might be lying otherwise. It's based on a biblical text which says "let your yeah be yeah and your no be no". You've been able to affirm since 16 something.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sat 01-Dec-12 08:26:11

I think it is more to do with affirming the general idea of community, helping others, thinking about something other than yourself, something greater than each one of us plodding along in isolation.

Good things for children to think about, whatever their beliefs.

ByTheWay1 Sat 01-Dec-12 08:25:50

I'm sure every religion thinks their God is the only one and if others join their "club" the others may think they are promising their own God from their own religion, but really they are promising the God of the organisers...

my cousin made her promise to her "Gods" as an atheist.. she said her Gods were of peace and love so the Brown Owl couldn't really say much....

seeker Sat 01-Dec-12 08:24:02

Atheist "affirm"

seeker Sat 01-Dec-12 08:23:25

It says "do my duty to my god".

We discussed this with ds recently- he said it without really thinking at Beavers and Cubs, but did think about it before moving on to Scouts. He decided that his god was currently Darwin, so he was fine with saying the line.

crescentmoon Sat 01-Dec-12 08:22:01

*during jury service

crescentmoon Sat 01-Dec-12 08:21:40

Off topic but can I ask what atheists swear on in court during testifying or song jury service? Christians swear on the bible, Muslims swear on the Quran, what does an atheist do?

FiercePanda Sat 01-Dec-12 08:15:28

Bow, not now.confused

FiercePanda Sat 01-Dec-12 08:14:58

Now down to his noodly appendage!

Ontesterhooks Sat 01-Dec-12 03:04:33

I am going to teach my ds about the Flying Spaghetti Monster and pastaferianism for when this comes up smile

NamingOfParts Sat 01-Dec-12 01:16:42

No solution only sympathy. Both DDs liked Guides/Brownies except that our troops were very church based. This meant that meetings were basically prep for church parade/church parade/review of church parade. This really left little time for anything else.

beansmum Sat 01-Dec-12 01:02:15

technodad - thanks for pointing that out, found a couple of threads now.

FiercePanda Fri 30-Nov-12 18:21:14

When I was in Brownies waaaaaay back in the day, a girl got to rewrite a bit of her Promise, as she was from an atheist family and her parents didn't want her promising to do her duty to a god they didn't believe in. I remember the pack leaders being very sniffy about the whole thing with her and her parents, which was not good at all. confused

technodad Fri 30-Nov-12 12:56:47

Interestingly there is a badge for 'my religion' .... guess that's a bit tricky if you're an atheist. Also I'm not sure cubs are necessarily old enough to have formed their own opinion on religious matters, perhaps it should be called 'my parents' religion' instead.

Or "The thing I have been brainwashed into without my permission" badge.

No one has ever asked DS (or me for that fact) whether he believes in God in terms of him having been a Beaver, or being a Cub. Have we just missed out?

Did he not have to swear to do his duty to god? If you can't make that oath then you can't join.

Isn't it a bit weird that you have to believe in a god to join cubs, but it doesn't matter which god it is?

Some say weird, some say discriminatory, but we have been here before just a couple of weeks ago on this forum.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps Thu 29-Nov-12 23:18:07

Interestingly there is a badge for 'my religion' .... guess that's a bit tricky if you're an atheist. Also I'm not sure cubs are necessarily old enough to have formed their own opinion on religious matters, perhaps it should be called 'my parents' religion' instead.

AMumInScotland Thu 29-Nov-12 22:05:13

Oh I totally agree it's pointless! Even if they wanted to encourage religion, getting the non-religious in to have a chance to talk to them would be a good thing rather than a bad thing. But all the cubs etc groups are based on a traditional pattern, where religious belief was the norm, even if a few people might have been from religions other than christianity (and more than a few in other countries). So they were respectful of the idea that your God might not be the Christian God, but atheism was just too much to face.

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