Ordinariate - What do you know about it?(10 Posts)
I go to a church where we have lost some people (and clergy) to the Roman Catholic Ordinariate. As such, I know a lot of what has gone on and why but I'm interested to know what the 'outside world' knows if anything? I keep bumping into people who have either heard my church is now empty (in truth we haven't lost that many people it's just the press only spoke to those leaving) or tell me that the Ordinariate is just about women being made bishops (which it isn't).
So, please tell me what you know!!
I'm not sure if I count as the outside world - but I attend a C of E church where nobody has, or is likely to, join the ordinariate.
From my position it is to do with the proposed legislation around the issue of Women in the Episcopate, which gets rid of resolutions A,B and C; which some members of the C of E considered essential to protect them from 'taint', that is contact with either a woman priest or (resolution C), a Bishop who had ordained a woman to the priesthood. 'Taint' because they do not believe that woman can be validly ordained.
At best the underlying issue is that of Authority: does any part of the Church catholic have a right to make fundamental , unilateral changes in Doctrine or Theology? At worst it is a type of 'boys club' and suggests an underlying distrust and dislike of women.
That would be my summary.
My understanding is that the current straw that broke the camel's back is women bishops. In reality, women bishops were inevitable when women were allowed to be priests as there is no theological distinction.
In reality, the RCC has been nibbling at Anglo-catholics for a long time, and make concessions like a double glazing salesman.
One of the interesting things about Walsingham is that they keep recycling old news. They tell you when people are expected to convert, when they are planning to, when they are about to, when it is their last Sunday as Anglicans, when they join RCIA, when they have their first communion, ad nauseam.
To the casual observer, it seems like Anglicans are switching all the time. In reality, the numbers are small and are niche. What is not reported are the numbers who convert the other way.
If Anglican priests find a home in Rome, then great for them. Unfortunately, Rome will not support their families or pay much of a pension. They were a burden on the CofE because they could not pay their parish share, but this is not a burden Rome offers to bear.
Anyone who swims the Tiber is doing it for ideological reasons rather than pragmatic ones. It's called cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. Unfortunately, there are wives and children who suffer.
aig-See I'm quite happy being at an A, B, C Parish, but haven't been happy that our now former Vicar likes to think we are a church in our own right and not part of the CofE. In reality, he has always been very 'Roman' and thus it wasn't a surprise. Personally, I see the problem of Synod voting on things and getting political, but I love the fact the CofE accomodates everyone. I hope that continues when they vote on measures for A, B, C Parishes later this year. I don't understand why people jumped before the vote as we don't know what will happen and hope Synod will be charitable.
MmeBlueberry - I don't understand why when we all knew women bishops would happen they didn't jump then. I do know that most of the clergy I know who have jumped keep talking about the Pope's 'generous offer' and going home, which yet again, seems crazy because they could just join Rome properly.
The Pope's offer started with the three 'naughty bishops' being found in Rome and instead of saying why they were there, got annoyed at it being reported. I was told that £250k was set aside by Rome for the whole of the Walsingham Ordinariate but a clergyman near to us has had a house bought for him by Rome and I know our former Vicar has said they'll cover his rent. This at the same time as telling the press he'll be homeless, destitute etc and yes, he's still in our Vicarage however many months later with no sign of leaving. Our former curate is still in our other property not paying rent too...
I agree about everything being reported but definitely at my church we're frustrated as we've been seriously slagged off in person and in the press and the CofE have told us not to defend ourselves. Always makes me wonder what people think. We also have a lot of former Romans who tell us they'll never go back.
As for Parish Share, we paid ours and always have, even when we don't 'use' our Bishop. We've advertised the post and have said we want someone who will work with the Diocese.
The people/congregation who left don't seem happy but tell us they've done the right thing. Some have pretty much admitted they did it as they were scared of our priest. Awful.
Thank you for letting me know, it's really interesting to hear as our church was brainwashed for the past year or so!
If they are buying a house, it will be a token in order to get good press. It will not be the norm. Catholic priests tend to shack up in hostels. They will not be happy with a fly-in getting a five-bedroom pad all to himself.
Catholics do not tend to give as much to the church as Anglicans. They are much closer to shaking a few coppers into the plate than tax-efficient tithing. They don't want expensive clergy, which, historically, they arrived at a supposedly celibate priesthood.
I have been told that the catholic priests won't be happy married clergy are getting in quickly and thinking they are 'in charge'. I suspect they'll have to get 'other jobs' to support their lives but then since they're not allowed a Parish or Church, no problem!!
Our former Curate who is not married as now had to take a vow of celibacy and will train in Rome.
Still even they don't seem to know what is going on!
I think we have to wait until the press, particularly catholic news agencies get bored. Then we will see the real lie of the land.
Traditionally within the RCC, married clergy have not been able to become bishops and a priest has to revert to celibacy on becoming a widower or divorcE.
There will definitely be a two lane priesthood. At my local RCC, the priest is a former Anglican (swam the Tiber because of gynophobia), and he is still referred to as the former Anglican 10 or 15 years on. His colleague, always RCC, is known as the gay one.
This is my view on the subject. Very close to home for me.
Wow-thank you shivster1980. I agree about celibacy and not getting married but IMO, you need to be married to promote family life to other people. How do you say 'you should get married and have a family but I'm better/not allowed' it makes no sense!
The reason they didn't all jump (although many did) when women were first ordained, is that they were promised that provision would be made for them. Not only that, 15 years ago, there was no Ordinariate, so they would have been absorbed into the RCC. If this promise hadn't been given, I doubt that we would now have priests who are women.
I hear about it from all sides, given I am a former RC, who became an Anglican, and have friends who are on both sides of the debate. I personally am pro ordination of women, and always have been.
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