Pet food - did anyone see this article (even tho is Daily Mail!)

[iggypiggy]

Just wondered if anyone had seen this - a friend sent me the link, before you all think I read the daily mail!:

Pet food Article

It is basically saying that pet food is not always the best thing for your pets...

Which is something I've know for ages (and why I feed a raw diet) - but am interested that it has been covered by the media, there's not been much interest in this before.

Incidentally - there are good brands of pet food - I am just always surprised at how few people worry about what they feed their pets!

[DarrellRivers]

There are more worrying things TBH

[iggypiggy]

It's not nescessarily that you need to buy expensive pet food - is just that people often don't look into what they feed at all.

To be honest - i only really know about dog food - not being a cat person! But there is cheaper dog stuff that is better than some more expensive brands.

Darrell more worrying things in life? Yes there are - but in terms of pets? What do you mean?

[iggypiggy]

Riven - that's good, they are supplementing their diet with fresh/ rotting meat

[minimu]

Glad that this information is becoming more available. I also feed raw due to the wrong balance of ingredients, and dangerous additives and preservatives in dog food in particular.

It is not so much the rubbish ingredients in the food but it is just the wrong sort of ingredients.

Raw feeding is better for my dogs and also cheaper! win win

[tulpe]

Haven't read the article but what exactly do you give to a dog on a raw diet

[mablemurple]

"The United Kingdom Raw Meaty Bones Support and Action Group" pmsl

[minimu]

Mine eat

raw minced beef
raw minced green tripe
sardines in oil (85-120g)
whole raw egg (and shell)
raw liver
cubed raw turkey
raw lambs' heart
raw lambs' kidneys
chicken wings
single-jointed chicken wings/tips
chicken carcasses
lamb backbone
lamb ribs
lamb neck
oxtail
turkey neck
whole (gutted) rabbit

etc

[tulpe]

Minimu - that was kind of what I thought but wondered if I was being a bit dim!

Can dogs cope with chicken bones then? I know you aren't supposed to give them to cats because they splinter too easily & can cause choking.

How many grams do you feed per meal?

Any links to other, more informative articles/sites on this topic?

[MrsL123]

Minimu do you find it expensive to feed them on the raw diet? It's something I considered when our older dog started suffering with colitis, but then we moved her onto Wainwrights and she's been great, so we've been reluctant to change again. But DH's shop is sandwiched between two butcher's shops, so it's always in the back of my mind!

[minimu]

Nope cheaper but I do have a huge freezer and buy in bulk and have a very friendly butcher who gives me chicken carcasses for free and a gamekeeper who keeps us in rabbits.

Chicken bones only splinter if they are cooked dogs will chew raw bones.

Never ever give a dog a cooked bone.

It does need some initial research to feed raw but once you have got it sorted it is fine. One of dogs will not chew the bones so he has them minced.

[Jux]

We have two cats. Unbeleivably, we've just bought a small sack of dried cat food - much cheaper and we are pretty broke atm.

Any idea where can I find reputable info about cat feeding?

[MrsL123]

Minimu do you just feed once a day, or twice? And do they get mostly diced/minced meat with the odd meaty bone as a treat, or does a bone replace one of their meals every day? Might have to start sucking up to the butchers to give me all their leftovers

I think you should indulge us all and do a whole thread on what & how to feed the BARF diet

Off to do some research!

[MrsL123]

Well after just an hour of research I'm very confused already It seems like their are some very good books on the subject worth reading, so I'll pick a couple up. DH sniggered when I asked him about feeding the dogs barf - and thought it was equally amusing that there is a site called barf world. Men, I ask you

Until I am knowledgeable / brave enough to try the raw diet, I think I'll stick with the Wainwrights - after looking at the ingredients in some of the other dog foods, it seems pretty damn good! All the turkey one contains, for example, is: Fresh Turkey (min. 65%), Turkey Liver (min. 5%), Brown Rice (min. 5%), Minerals, Vitamins, Seaweed, Chicory Root. Nowt else at all. Compared to good old Pedigree Bum (!): Meat and Animal Derivatives (Min 4% Fresh Meat), Derivatives of Vegetable Origin, Oils and Fats, Minerals, Coloured with Caramel.

Hmmm well thats....vague

I think as ready made dog food goes it's pretty good, so I'll just throw in some raw bones / chicken wings from the butchers for their teeth and go from there (they currently have pedigree denture sticks which cost a fortune and are probably full of chicken anus and the like).

My cats are more of a worry, the blinkin things will only eat (she whispers) Whiskas . I've tried to tell them it's like coco pops for cats but they won't listen, they turn their noses up at everything else and go on a hunger strike. Saying that, the fat cat could do with eating a bit less! Anyone have any ideas on what raw stuff cats can eat?

[midori1999]

MrsL123, there is a very good book called 'Raw Meaty Bones' by Tom Lonsdale. I personally prefer his approach to the BARF diet, although I have been known to give occasional veggies/oils etc in addition to meat and bones. I think there might be a website for that book too if you google.

Sadly, I cannot feed raw due to the fact one of mine cannot tolerate bone at all except marrow bones and chicken wings and she catagorically refuses to eat chicken wings now anyway, for some reason. They looked better than ever when they were being fed raw though. It is also ridiculously expensive to feed raw over here as Landywoods etc will not deliver here, had they then we could have fed ground bone with meat and that would have solved our girls issues with it, I suspect.

I do supplement with raw meat, and the tow that eat chicken wings etc get them, but it's not the same.

[MrsL123]

Thanks minimu I'll have a look at that. I had a look at Landywoods and their prices are great, the course ground bone trays were the ones I looked at last night, 35p a tray for 400g, which is half the price of wainwrights and probably twice as good. My only worry is fridge and freezer space, the wainwrights trays are so easy to store because they just stack.

I've also been looking at the NatureDiet trays today, which contain ground bone and are on par price-wise to wainwrights. I see they also do a frozen raw range of nuggets and blocks, but can't find any prices on the PAH website so not sure if that works out more expensive. I worry about feeding chicken wings etc as the puppy is a guzzler, and would probably try to swallow them whole

DH has been given instructions to return tonight with a nice meaty bone from the butchers!

[MrsL123]

Sorry I mean thank you midori - my brain isn't working properly today!

[releasethehounds]

We've had 2 dogs (now on our 3rd) and the previous 2 lived till 18 years and 16 years respectively, fed quite happily on tinned dog food and mixer. They were both very fit and active dogs and (thankfully) required very few visits to the vet.

A vet I heard on the radio recently said that dogs have strong stomachs and can live well on a variety of foods, like humans.

Don't believe the hype.

[BecauseImWorthIt]

at BARF diet!

[QueenOfFlamingEverything]

Dp's dog (10yo GSD/lab/Newfie X) has been on a home prepared diet for years now. Dp has always said this about most commercial petfood - it is utter crap, full of additives to make it more appealing to humans.

He doesn't get 100% raw diet though. The staples are any fresh meat/fish thats reduced to silly money in the supermarket, sardines in oil, the odd raw egg, dog-suitable leftovers (cooked rice is always a hit), and occasionally some Nature Diet senior dogfood.

One the rare occasion he gets 'normal' dogfood he farts like a bastard.

[releasethehounds]

LOL Queen!

[midori1999]

releasethehounds, dogs can survive on just about anything, but do they thrive on it?! I know more than several people who's dogs have had various compaints that vets see as almost routine and rarely attribute to diet, such as blocked anal glands and skin conditions. They have tried various 'cures' suggested by their vet, but things have only really improved/completely cleared up when they have switched to a raw diet. Also, dogs do not smell 'doggy' when fed raw. It is after all, what they are evolved to eat too... I really don't think an example of two dogs in enough of a 'case study' compared to years of research by certain vets.

MrsL123, the main danger from swallowing a whole chiken wing is choking, but if you hol donto one end of the chicken wing until she has clamed down a bit, that'll help. Rather stupidly, whne we first started feeding raw I decided to give indiviudal (as oppsed ot on the rack where they couldnt' swallow them) pork ribs to mine. Our 16 week old puppy swallowed a large whole rib before I could grab it. I did almost actually s**t myself... thankfully, she was fine, didn't bring it up and managed to digest it with no problem somehow. It just shows what they can cope with, but I suspect we were very lucky ont hat occasion...

[moosemama]

I have read Tom Lonsdale and Billingshurst and all my dogs were on the raw meaty bones diet until we moved from Lancashire to here. We tried every butcher in the area and could not find one who would supply us with bones. (Fundamentally they all seem to pitch themselves as deli-style meat specialists, rather than family butchers and think they are too posh to give out bags of bones, and sell chicken wings. One of them actually said "If you want that sort of rubbish, ie chicken wings, go to Asda!" which is really helpful, especially as there isn't an Asda round here.) At our old place we had several lovely butchers that were more than happy to give us sackfuls of bones and order as many chicken wings as we needed. I don't like buying chicken wings from supermarkets, as they always seem to smell off from the word go and the quality seems very poor.

I didn't know you could buy ground bone trays and might well look into it now, as since putting my guys on commercial (Wellbeloved) petfood they have suffered from a plethora of ailments such as regular stomach upsets and ear and skin conditions.

The only other problem I have is that we used to have a garage with a large freezer in it just for dog food at the old house. Here we have neither a garage or space for a freezer, so with three dogs it might not be doable simply from a food storage point of view.

My Wheaten was on Naturediet when she came to us years ago. Unfortunately we had a 'bad batch' which made her violently ill and she has suffered with colitis ever since as a result. Her colitis symptoms disappeared on the raw diet, but flare up regularly on the dried food.

I haven't heard of Wainwrights, it sounds good though, where can you buy it from? Years ago Wellbeloved used to be one of the best on the market, along with Burns, but the quality seems very variable these days. Sometimes it looks and smells different than usual and then, sure enough, the dogs all go down with stomach upsets.

[QueenOfFlamingEverything]

Last time we had to take him to the vet, we asked about diet just to see what she'd say, and interestingly she didn't try to convince us he needed some expensive scientific stuff in a bag. She said it was great if we had the time to do it and that a small amount of cereals or vegetables is a good thing, as in the wild dog-type animals will also eat the stomach contents of the animals they kill [vom]