Say "NO" to 'No Deal' Brexit

(12 Posts)
pandaroja Fri 05-Oct-18 12:14:11

Brexit was sold on the back of sunlit uplands, meaning being better off than we are now. Now we discover Brexit means unlit uplands - medicine shortages, interruption to the food supply, energy outages, transport breakdown and troops on the streets to quell civil unrest.

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pandaroja Fri 05-Oct-18 12:18:56

If like me you agree that what is being delivered on Brexit is light-years away from what was promised and limits our children's opportunities, then please sign this petition:
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/219905

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WhollyFather Fri 05-Oct-18 12:24:30

Brexit was sold on the desire of the majority of voters to see the UK become a self-governing democracy again, not vague promises of being better off.

None of the things you worry about will happen. You have been sold - or are pushing - Project Fear.

WTO, or 'no deal' as you refer to it, is a consequence of the UK and the EU failing to agree a deal acceptable to both sides, not a choice, though it would be the best way for the UK to leave the EU. Note that it is not just Parliament who will express their opinion of any deal May manages to beg from the EU but also of the British people, who will not accept a Brexit In Name Only such as that envisaged by May's Chequers proposals.

Brexit will not be stopped. The petition is a waste of time.

averylongtimeago Fri 05-Oct-18 12:33:30

Well I have signed it.
The disaster the a no deal Brexit will be will take at least a generation to recover from.

YeTalkShiteHen Fri 05-Oct-18 12:36:59

I’ll sign it. My biggest concern is the return of violence for those living in NI, and a return of the Troubles.

None of which is taken seriously by many leavers who confidently pooh pooh any mention of it.

I have many other concerns, but that, for me, is the biggest.

pandaroja Fri 05-Oct-18 15:41:19

Interesting that the first response should be from a man, who is effectively saying to me, "It's all in your mind; don't you worry your pretty little head about Brexit; everything will be fine."

You'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to know that everything will not be fine. I had lunch with one of the DExEU ministers last week and the guy who has been appointed as the new Food Shortages Minister happens to be an old friend of mine. I'm not in the business of scaremongering. I'm well-educated, well-read and well-networked. I know what I'm talking about.

The last time there was a food supply minister was during WW2 and they were responsible for food rationing. The government's own preparation notices tell us to expect shortages of food & medicine, energy outages (especially in Northern Ireland) and transport disruption, as well as a significant drop in economic activity and austerity for the foreseeable future.

Brexit WAS sold on the back of a rosier future, no matter what WhollyFather says now. David Davis then rowed back and said he would get us a deal with "the exact same benefits as now". I remember watching him on TV in October 2016, at the Dispatch Box in the House of Commons (significant, because that means it's a government undertaking) saying, "There will be no downside to Brexit." Furthermore on Wednesday, Dancing Queen May tried to bribe us with the promise of greater prosperity if only we'll back her Brexit plan (which almost everybody, whether Brexiter or Remainer, says does not protect British businesses).

There is no mandate for 'No Deal' Brexit. It was never put to us before the Ref. Indeed, LeaveHQ specifically said it should not be an option. In their blog, "What's Wrong With The WTO Option?" they said, ""One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible govt would allow it."

So don't just dismiss my concerns out of hand WhollyFather, for they are well founded. You'll have noticed that public opinion shifted to Remain in Autumn 2016 and the lead has been gradually growing. It's women who account for almost all of that change. We're the ones who have to deal with life's practicalities, from caring for the previous generation to equipping the future one to have a good start in life. How unwise of you to come into a women's forum and start patronising women!

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Cheesecake53 Fri 05-Oct-18 15:46:59

Signed

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peasinpods12 Fri 05-Oct-18 15:52:07

signed and shared

Biber Fri 05-Oct-18 16:30:14

I've signed. Wish there was a way that people who are not online could sign. I've an elderly computer illiterate relative who is very indignant that they were misled. A leave voter who believed in the rosy future for the NHS and that everything would go back to 'how it was in the old days.'.

pandaroja Fri 05-Oct-18 16:45:06

That's a very good point, Biber. Not just for petitions, but for all interactions with our government now, it seems, you have to do it online. My mum has the same issue as your elderly relative, and it's not just a case of doing it for them, because they have to have a valid email address.

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Josor Fri 05-Oct-18 20:15:28

Hi WhollyFather.

The U.K. is a self governing democracy and always has been. Our government based in Westminster has to ratify and agree all laws in order for them to be incorporated into our laws.
Trading under WTO would not be beneficial to our country it would mean that any exports we tried to send abroad would be subject to huge tariffs likewise anything imported into this country. Can you afford to pay an extra 25% on every import? Three car manufacturers have already said they will be stopping for at least a month while they decide what will be best for them. What makes you think they are lying?
Putting this country back to the 70’s will not be a rosy future the 70’s has the winter of discontent lots of strikes and not something anyone in their right mind would want to return to.

oldishguy Sat 06-Oct-18 22:09:13

Whatever you think about Brexit, you have to ask: What voting result delivers a PROPER MANDATE to justify this profound action? Every other country that uses referendums uses thresholds around the 2/3 or 70% level, as if voting surpasses that threshold it clear that a mandate exists. Think about it: Is a 2% margin a mandate??? A good part of the consternation felt by remain voters arises because they know the result was more or less a dead heat, and that the UK is being corralled down an irrevocable path when a real measurable justification just isn't there. Remember too, that 2 of the 4 nations of the UK favoured Remain.
Bearing in mind that the massive lies told by the Leave campaign and the absence of just about ANY impartial investigations beforehand to inform the British electorate, we are an utter mess.
On the basis of what the Government said beforehand, the referendum was done in order to inform Parliament, not to deliver a decision, and if Parliament had had the wit and wisdom to assess the result for what it was (no mandate at all), then Brexit would by now be a mere tawdry hiccup in our progress to a better fairer society. As that assessment by the Commons didn't happen, then another referendum is probably the best we can hope for. That a 50% threshold will be used again is almost certain. Our only hope will be that it will reverse the previous one. Remember, Cameron put the referendum together and as soon as he got a result he didn't like, he disappeared - there's loyalty to his country!
The whole idea of Brexit is madcap and to me shows how many people can't see what it will turn out to offer. We will struggle not to be screwed by all the big countries - expect the very worst from the USA. Look up "investor-state dispute resolution" in Wikipedia if you really want some understanding about what will hit us (The EU spent 9 years negotiating with the USA for a trade deal and they pulled the plug because of that). The multinational carmakers have a good act right now in the UK. It's taken over 20 years to build up, and I'm telling you that it won't be anything like the same if Brexit enacts.
A lot of the problem comes from our nation printed media. Nearly all papers have used the EU as a whipping boy and spoon fed unquestioning readers just plain guff. Talk to mainland European people: the EU ain't perfect but it outperforms the alternatives by a mile. Right now the world is appreciably less stable than it was 2 or 3 years ago. Weakening our relationships with the group of nations most like us is just crazy. We will probably have no option but to train ourself as America's poodle. Wait and see! We have to remember that the EU is evolving. The EU has had profound shocks over immigration. It is bound to make new accommodations about that, and we will end up seeing change that would have like to have seen going ahead without us. There have been many occasions when EU law protected consumers more than our government would have wished, due to their being easily influenced by big business. That will go. I could go on but please read quality information sources and make up your own mind. Three months before the referendum I didn't know, but I read intensively and my opinion is that we should both stay and play a much more active role in the EU (something that ALL previous UK governments have just not bothered to do - see Chapter 11 of the excellent book book "How To Lose A Referendum" by Farrell and Goldsmith if you want to see how our governments let us down by their failure to engage with the EU) Cheers!

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