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Tax deductibe childcare: please sign this e-petition

(42 Posts)
Strix Mon 19-Nov-12 08:45:35

In Europe parents spend an average of 13% of salaries on childcare; 5% in Sweden and 27% in the UK. One way the UK Government can reduce the burden of childcare costs is to make childcare costs 100% tax deductible for all workers. Many UK workers - including the self-employed - do not have access to a childcare voucher scheme (which currently gives basic rate tax payers a tax exempt entitlement of £55/week).

dodders Mon 19-Nov-12 11:55:15

Done smile

Italiana Mon 19-Nov-12 12:02:43

There is another e-petition asking the govt to raise c/v from £55 to £75 per week but I know the DfE is not happy with this proposal

C/vs should be available to is the employers at fault here not the govt as employers need to set up the scheme which saves them tax and NI contibutions as well as parents...of course it would help if it was compulsory but not sure if this can be legislated

The govt spend £7bn in childcare however the funding streams are complicated and often duplicate what is out there and of course the recipients are often not solution would be to fund providers directly and we 'account' for that money via our businesses...I think it simple and may be in the pipeline

Strix Mon 19-Nov-12 12:35:44

Oh, a whole £75... which I won't be entitled to. hmm

My DH is self employed and therefore entitle to £0.

I was made redundant a year ago and so when I got a new job my entitlement was halved because I counted as a new entrant to the system.

the real cost of childcare in Greater london is about £2000 a month for a family with young children. So, I would like childcare vouchers on my first £2000 each month. I would my pension contribution, annual raise, etc. not to be effected. And I would like my husband to be entitled to share that benefit with me (so £1000 each or however people choose to split it).

But, I'd settle for £1000.

Strix Mon 19-Nov-12 12:37:56

Childcare is an expense I incur for the sole purpose of going to work, and it should therefore be taken out of my income before IR calculates any tax / benefit I may then be entitled to.

Anyone want to discuss the removal of child benefit and how that helps working families???

Strix Mon 19-Nov-12 12:40:43

Funding the childcare provider directly would cost unneccary overheads, and put who cares for my children under the control of the government.

No thank you!

Strix Mon 19-Nov-12 12:41:22

unneccary = unnecessary

fraktion Mon 19-Nov-12 12:42:01

I'm with you strix. The voucher scheme is a disgrace which actively discourages self-employment and entrepreneurship.

DowagersHump Mon 19-Nov-12 12:44:36

I am a self-employed single parent - my biggest overhead so that I can work to support my child is childcare. It is absurd that I can't get any kind of tax relief on it whatsoever when we're supposedly trying to encourage a) an entrepreneurial culture and b) to get single parents into work

I will sign smile

Strix Mon 19-Nov-12 12:45:52

And it leads struggling parents to take on illegal cash in hand options.

It is time the gov't lets hard working people keep some the their money to pay for their own childcare, so they can go to work and pay taxes.

alisarah Mon 19-Nov-12 12:51:49

done and shared: I have thought this for ages: My employers don't do the vouchers for 'temp' employees; but do for there permanents (I have been employed with them for 10 months now) - I just don't understand why??

dodders Mon 19-Nov-12 13:17:24

Would it really cost so much for the government to do this? It would enable more mothers to get back into the workforce therefore becoming tax payers, more people would be employed in childcare roles also boosting the tax take plus working parents would have greater disposal income which would be spent on food, clothing etc stimulating the broader economy. If you have young children, particularly pre-school age, you need childcare in order to work and as other posters have said the current voucher entitlement goes nowhere near the full cost of it, especially in the SE.

Italiana Mon 19-Nov-12 14:06:01

Fraktion and Strix
I have parents who are self employed and claim c/vs so it is available...some employers are reluctant to start a scheme...ask why and write to the DfE I have done on behalf of parents so you can do it for yourself and also signed petitions so parents get more via c/ support for parents is consistent...who supports us?

Funding childcare providers directly would be a way to account for the funding...have you ever seen how LAs spend their money?. Neither have I and they are given money to support my practice..I have had very little spent on me in 4 years, now I need to pay for training while the DfE says they fund LAs appropriately...who do I believe?
The govt is in control because they fund some of your childcare but they have no idea where £7bn is going? do you know it would cost overheads...on the contrary it would reduce red tape and the middleman

Those who pay cash in hand should stop and think it illegal and the provider not declaring it or is it because cash in hand is perfectly acceptable as long as it is declared?
Marks and Spencer accept cash...I never doubted they declare it!

fraktion Mon 19-Nov-12 14:51:00

The SE parent cannot claim vouchers. They can get other forms of help such as tax credits but they cannot get vouchers. The SE parents you have may either be paid via a company they own or be using the employed parent's vouchers.

Supply side funding would work and work well for CMs and nurseries. For those who need or want a nanny it's a disaster. It works in other countries precisely by providing tax relief for people employing nannies. One thing is certain: less money should be going to LAs and the middlemen but whether it goes to parents or providers is topic for debate.

The vouchers scheme in principle is good. You can only use it to pay for approved childcare so there is a fraud prevention system in care and the voucher company pays the provider at the parents' request. What isn't great is that you need voucher companies, which means there are additional costs, and that the scheme is limited.

CMs are not the only ones affected by the limitations of the voucher scheme, italiana. It's a sector wide affordability issue. You serm to do an enormous amount for CMs and it's a shame the NCMA isn't looking after its members but you have to remember there are other types of provision, who you may feel that you're in competition with, but they meet needs you can't or are unwilling to and they may have different views. Wanting more tax relief on childcare costs and supporting providers are not mutually exclusive.

Italiana Mon 19-Nov-12 15:16:18

Fraktion Thank you for your comments. I have realised that i really do not need an association to represent me and pay for that privilege while i can do it very well myself and improve my practice
We will see what happens in future
Yes I am proactive but try to look after myself while raising c/ms concerns in general to gain more recognition
I am scared of this army of women Truss wants to join in childcare, will they do a good job or just interested in the money because they can have 5 under 5 as Truss would like?
After the ofsted workshop I realise it is not that easy to increase your numbers...various factors at work

The fuding now goes to parents and I know Truss is looking at directing more towards providers cutting the middleman, you may remeber when the Voucher system came in in 1997 the vouchers went to the parents but couldn't be spent any other way like benefits can

I am aware of the wide provision and each does its bit, competition not really with nurseries as I offer continuity of care for years rather than a few until school ...
I used to run my own preschool so have a bit of experience but I truly feel my service now is wider than what I could offer as a preschool

I am truly interested in what you say about other provisons meeting needs i can' there, in your view, room for improving c/ms services to parents, what is it we do not do, would like your views

Strix Mon 19-Nov-12 17:12:39

"The govt is in control because they fund some of your childcare"

No they don't. They give me a tax break on a small amount of my earnings, which is not the same as them funding it.

The only way I can think of that your parents are getting c/v is if they set up a limited company, hence they work for a company really.

My children, my money, let me control where it goes.

As for the LA, you are right that there is not enough transparency. And that is why we have academies and free schools popping up all over the place.

fraktion Mon 19-Nov-12 20:30:21

Off the top of my head CMs can't or won't: Travel with a family, do nursery duties, batch cook

It's hard to find CMs who don't mind the impact on their family of: Early starts, late finishes, shift work, overnights, Bank Holiday working, restricted holiday, pickups from private schools

Some nurseries or preschools have an advantage of being feeders for primary schools, either through a nursery 'class' in the school or because there just happens to be a link with eg a private prep.

For about 90% of parents CMs are a realistic option and that could probably be extended to 95% if all CMs were as flexible as the most are but I can understand why they don't want to commit to that.

There are also the less concrete objections about nurseries being group care and feeling safer or it's what parents are culturally used to or they don't want to have that kind of partnership and would rather be able to boss someone around wink

EldonAve Mon 19-Nov-12 20:36:57


Strix Mon 19-Nov-12 20:40:17

Erm... Can we stay on topic? Tax deductible childcare for all. Please sign the petition. I'm sure the government will. Ah... Ignorance is blss. :-)

Strix Mon 19-Nov-12 20:48:51

Meant to say "...government will listen."

Italiana Mon 19-Nov-12 21:43:53

Fraktion Are you talking about a nanny when you refer to travel with family, nursery duty, do you mean pick ups? and batch cook...cook for the family? do shift work, early and late start, overnight, private schools pick ups, what are restricted holidays? we take a few weeks when parents have up to 25 days if not more?
Nurseries are feeders but do not take to school or pick up or do holiday care

Flexibility..that magic word, what does it really mean? we have to be flexible because employers are not and parents work all hours and children are in care long long hours?
C/ms should work all hours...try to get a nursery to open at 7am and see what happens when parents are 5 minutes late

Group care is also enjoyed by c/ms when we have playdays (I also worked in a day nursery for a while...never again)

What partnership do parents have with c/ms that is different from nurseries? mine is purely professional and I do not like be bossed around!

Strix I think the message is the govt invests 7bn in childcare so it has somehow got to get to the parents...the free entitlemnet is a benefit to parents which we subsidise

Academies and free schools ...that is deviating from the subject..
I have signed the petition to raise c/vs from £55 to £75 but if you want tax breaks then I want something to help my business too..fair deal?

EverybodysSnowyEyed Mon 19-Nov-12 21:52:10

A big advantage of tax deductibility is that it legitimises the child carer

a lot of nanny employers play the 'self employed' card - effectively removing the nanny from the formal system and reducing their access to pension rights/employment rights etc

I should imagine there is a similar impact on CM's - it would make it much harder for unregistered CM's

If child care costs came out of gross salary people would be able to pay more for it as well

Startail Mon 19-Nov-12 21:52:19

No I'm a SAHM, I am already a 4th class citizen.

When DH can share his income 50/50 with me and stop paying higher rate tax, then and only then will I give a monkeys about tax breaks for childcare.

Strix Mon 19-Nov-12 21:53:06

So that's a "no" then to staying on thread topic. Oh we'll meander away... Perhaps I'll bang on about tax deductible childcare when you want to advertise your OFSTED sponsored group hugs at the local C of E.

DowagersHump Mon 19-Nov-12 21:54:14

Italiana - this isn't a thread about CMs vs other forms of childcare. CM care doesn't work for me at the moment for a whole host of reasons - parents should be able to choose the form of childcare that works best for them and their children, whatever it is. And tax breaks that go across every type of childcare is the best way of achieving that.

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