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Dyslexia training to be mandatory in Initial Teacher Training

(120 Posts)
5beasts Wed 03-Oct-12 21:19:25

Big ask - this petition needs 100,000 in order for this issue to get Parliamentary time. Believe it or not, student teachers currently are not taught about dyslexia, a condition that affects 1 in 10 people. More signatures urgently needed. Please could you sign this, then pass it on to your friends. There is less than a month left to get 85,000 signatures!

jabed Sat 13-Oct-12 07:12:06

jabed my response would be that those 'gifted' people should stay well away from education if they are so narrow minded

I do not think it is about narrow mindedness. Is a medical graduate who does not want to take the option of psychiatry but instead prefers surgery to be so castigated and told he/she should stay well away. Even though they may make a first class surgeon and a poor psychiatrist

You see, I would like my DS to be taught by such a gifted person if it is possible but if they are turned away from teaching then I will not have that option and those who are attracted may not be so suitable (and I sometimes think that is what underlies the comments made on MN about teachers needing more training and about them being poor at their jobs and also underlies the Govt sound bite that we need the " brightest and the best" in teaching and qualification levels are immediately put up. But those brightest (and possibly best) do not want to teach, or often train and leave teaching.

I am not trying to be disrespectful I am just pointing out what might be happening here. Unfortunately SN is a very sensitive subject and any mere whiff of what I have said meets with a tirade of personal abuse . ..... " go elsewhere " from those who often have DC in the 10%.

jabed Sat 13-Oct-12 07:16:14

You're a bit of a fuckwit jabed

QED - asI said mention this elephant in the roonm and immediately you are personally abused. Until this conversation can be had openly , its going to remain a controversial area and I suspect leave a lot of people feeling very frustrated because it cannot be discussed. Its not for the first time its been raised now is it EBD? I have seen severalposts/ posters who have made comments and promptly had them removed ( no doubt been censured too ) on MN.

But hey, what about the rest of us - the 90% with those "NT" children?

jabed Sat 13-Oct-12 07:18:37

You think 'bright' 'talented' teachers only want to teach academically able kids?

I am not saying that at all. I am sure many gifted teachers want to teach SN. I amjust saying there may be some very gifted ones who do not and they are not being given an option (and indeed being turned away or told to leave).

We do not need to be so wasteful of talent surely?

jabed Sat 13-Oct-12 07:25:30

Able kids can teach themselves from a syllabus and a textbook available on Amazon. Bloody easy and really quite boring

So my DS is able and so he has to get along on his own. He has not right to a decent or even a good ( let alone a gifted) teacher? I see.

What happens then to those who are NT but middle of the road? Do they not have any right to a good teacher either? They may not be so ablke to get a book off Amazon and read it - easy but boring as you put it. They may need a teacher who can help them too. Its a very different skill to bringing out the best in SN children.

I respect the skill involved in dealing with SN. However, I still want to know what happens to the rest. If its all about SN really and eveyone else can go and get a book of Amazon then should all schools be SN schools? Is that what you are advocating?

The rest can go and buy a book.

mrz Sat 13-Oct-12 08:10:03

If all ITT included preparing teachers to teach reading, writing and maths effectively it might be a start.

Badvoc Sat 13-Oct-12 08:24:53

What mrz said.
There is not one trained sen/sn teacher at my sons school and for most if last year no Senco.
It is not until you have a child with sen/sn that you realise just how dire and woefully inadequate provision for these children is.
The majority of people I am sure think that there is lots of help available for these kids from the people paid by the state to help them.
Sadly that is simply not the case.
Check out the MN sn board and read about the battles parents of sen/sn kids have to go through just to get their kids an education which is their basic legal right.
Well, until gove et al decide sen/sn kids don't deserve an education....
And as mrz says, the quality if nqts has declined immensely in recent years...ds1 has had at least 2 teachers who had no grasp of grammar and could not spell.
And they were supposed to be teaching my severely dyslexic son to read?
<hollow laughter>
The vast majority of teacher training involves palmning and stategies for controlling the classroom iirc.

StarlightMcKenzie Sat 13-Oct-12 09:08:36

Jabbed, SEN is not an 'issue' unless the teacher themselves is also an 'issue'. Lack of decent sen training IS an issue.

Also an issue is that LA SEN advisors are predominantly in the role because they couldn't hack it in the class room. So basically, shit ex-teachers.

StarlightMcKenzie Sat 13-Oct-12 09:23:14

Badvoc, tbh I think that it isn't until you have a child with SEN that you realise how bad the system is for ALL children.

Badvoc Sat 13-Oct-12 10:02:54

True star smile

MrsShrek3 Sat 13-Oct-12 19:04:37

well said Mrz...

jamdonut Thu 25-Oct-12 20:26:34

There is a thread on AIBU which is complaining that teachers shouldn't "diagnose" SEN and yet on this thread it seems to imply that teachers should!confused
I think most teachers have some training in certain conditions, others are picked up with experience ,'on the job'. If there is a child with a certain condition,training is usually organised for staff. Then there is the SEN co-ordinator, who will most likely have undertaken further training, to whom the other teachers can refer to if they have concerns.

JessJones93 Mon 26-Nov-12 17:43:08

Don't think it should be covered any more in ITT I am training and have literally no time to fit any more in!!!

My suggestion would be a disabled type teachers association whereby training days/brochures/extensive website etc is available for guidance in teaching and including these challenges then would be open for all teachers who have already qualified too?

Would probably cost a lot though I'm not sure how much this associations cost!

JessJones93 Mon 26-Nov-12 17:52:35

Also why does everyone slate trainee teachers but as soon as we qualify we are now teachers and so do not warrant being essentially called inadequate and illiterate anymore? Everyone has to start somewhere!!


morethanpotatoprints Fri 30-Nov-12 22:31:42

I do see your point jabed, Many children ime both recently and historically manage to go through the school system without diagnosis nor more importantly the help and support they need.
With this in mind I think there should be specialist teachers, and yes maybe this wouldn't be right for all cases, but should be available to those who would benefit.
As a FE teacher part of my role was to facilitate a diagnostic test for all my students. I was amazed at how many were not only directed to inclusive learning but were then diagnosed in many cases with severe learning difficulties.
There are 2 points here.

1. Why do so many children go un diagnosed throughout their childhood, when it is picked up so easily at FE.
2. Isn't it far better to test children to give those that require support a better chance.

I was one of these people at point 1, and have suffered throughout my life due to lack of support

mrz Sat 01-Dec-12 20:17:47

Who was slating trainee teachers JessJones93?

mrz Sat 01-Dec-12 20:21:30

morethanpotatoprints why do you think these children haven't been picked up through their childhood? Why do you think they haven't been tested?

LRDtheFeministDude Sun 02-Dec-12 21:13:39

Sorry, a bit back in the thread but I just wanted to say:

'But hey, what about the rest of us - the 90% with those "NT" children?'

jabed, the statistic is that 1 in 10 children are dyslexic. That doesn't mean 90% are NT. It means that 90% are not dyslexic, but that 90% will include children will all sorts of other different needs, won't there? So, all the various learning disabilities, autistic spectrum disorders and impairments to do with sight or hearing or mobility - a teacher won't be able to avoid non-NT children and I don't think it's right they should feel entitled to. If someone did want to do that, I'd say they're not cut out for teaching.

morethanpotatoprints Mon 03-Dec-12 12:11:55


I believe that for many children it isn't picked up early for several reasons.

Firstly is the funding problem and the lack of. Next, I think that there aren't sufficient psychologists employed and that man power is stretched to limits resulting in long waiting lists. I don't think parental concern is taken seriously enough and hence some dc allowed to slip through the net.
Also the diagnostic assessment given to students in FE I am told is not suitable for children. All of this I understand but not necessarily agree with, because it seems so poor to automatically assess adults in FE but not children.

PlaySchool Mon 03-Dec-12 17:50:36

My son's teacher said he has never had a dyslexic child in his class. He has been teaching for some years.hmm

PlaySchool Mon 03-Dec-12 17:57:37

Also, many teachers have no idea who is dyslexic or otherwise in their class. The register system will say if a child has been identified as being on School Action,School Action Plus or has a statement. However, if you ask a subject teacher what a child's specific problems are he/she will probably say that they don't know as they haven't checked the info on that particular child (as the detailed info is on a different system). It is shocking.
I learned this when I was doing teacher training.

mrz Mon 03-Dec-12 18:10:22

morethanpotatoprints I think most schools are good up at recognising children with problems very quickly - often in nursery and reception but then the problems start. For me to refer I need two years of evidence to show what we have done has been ineffective hmm (if the child makes progress then what the school is doing is effective) and then if the child is assessed the advice is to do what we have been doing for two years or more. We put a dressing on the problem but don't look for the cause.
and yes there aren't enough EPs allocation has been reduced to 10 hours per year! shock which can be used up on two statutory reviews.

I've never encountered a system such as PlaySchool describes and would be very worried if I thought it was widespread.

PlaySchool Mon 03-Dec-12 18:18:35

The system is having data on SIMS but having to look elsewhere, i.e., asking the SENCO or looking on another computer folder for the relevant information.

mrz Mon 03-Dec-12 18:31:39

It isn't a common for staff not to know the children in their care PlaySchool regardless of where the information is stored

PlaySchool Mon 03-Dec-12 18:43:37

I was not alone in my experience. It wasn't only one school either.

PlaySchool Mon 03-Dec-12 18:45:23

I'm talking about secondary by the way where subject teachers don't spend all day with the same class.

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