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Accents on names of British-born, English mother-tongue people.

(32 Posts)
HelpOneAnother Mon 17-Dec-12 09:47:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hollyisalovelyname Sun 29-Sep-13 10:41:56

Redshifter it's a fada not a fadder. Can't do a fada on my phone.
Sean , with a fada is pronounced Shaawn. A long 'a' sound

redshifter Wed 25-Sep-13 19:05:57

Jkklpu -

I strongly diasagree. Everyone I have met in Ireland pronounces Sean as 'Shon' . Probably as it is the Irish Gaelic form of the English 'John'. It is a very common name in my family and is always pronounced Shon by us. We always found it quite funny and strange when it was pronounced 'Shorn' as though our hair was being shorn off. It wasn't as bad as' Seen' which we often got called by our teachers in primary school in the 1970s.

The correct Irish spelling (sorry I can't get accents on this phone) would be with a fodder (accent) over the 'a'.
With the fodder over the 'e', Sean would be pronounced 'Shane' and have the different meaning of 'friend' -I think.
With no fodder I think it is usually pronounced 'Sheen' And means either old or new . It's a long time since I spoken any Irish.

jkklpu Sat 19-Jan-13 22:46:11

Jessie - "shone" rhymes with "gone" or "on"
"Sean/Shaun" - these have a different, longer vowel sound and rhyme with "fawn" or "pawn".
Does that help? (I'm Scottish, too, and I make a distinction.)

JessieMcJessie Thu 03-Jan-13 15:41:28

Thanks Cardibach. I am Scottish (clue in the username..) So "shorn"doesn't help me because my accent is rhotic i.e. I pronounce the "r" and pretty sure there's no "r" sound in Sean grin

"Sean Connery said the sun shone"- exactly the same sound at the beginning and the end of that sentence for me...

cardibach Wed 02-Jan-13 23:43:00

By the way, my daughter has an 'ë' in her name. Without it you would not sound the 'e'. It would be incorrect to do so. Why would you think that pretentious? I would have hoped not to have encountered this here - I'd hoe to trust pedants to realise that accuracy of spelling is important.

cardibach Wed 02-Jan-13 23:38:58

Jessie Shaun/Sean/Siôn are pronounced like 'Shorn', while shone has a shorter 'o' sound. WHere are you from? Perhaps your local accent obscures the difference to some degree (can't think of one which would, but willing to be educated).

IShallCallYouSquishy Sun 30-Dec-12 16:46:19

My mum has a French name. Her father was a French/Pole and all his family love in France. She was named after one of her Dads aunts. She was born in London. English has always been her first language. Her name has accents over 2 e's and without them her name would be English.

It's her given name though so why would this be an issue to anyone? Just because she was born and raised in the uk does that mean she's not entitled to use her family's name??

JessieMcJessie Sun 30-Dec-12 16:08:13

My friend's Dad is Turkish and she has a Turkish name with an umlaut on the "u". She doesn't speak Turkish though. I put it on if I am writing but don't bother when typing, she doesn't mind it being missed off but is extra happy when it is remembered. However, there is a difference between this and an English person missing off a French acute or grave accent, because most English speakers know how the French accent changes the sound, so it's like a mispronunciation if they ignore it, just like you'd get marked down for not putting the accents in your French homework.

However, please can someone tell me how "Sean/Shaun" and "shone" are pronounced differently? To me they sound the same!

PS, doesn't Katie Price's daughter Princess Tiaami have some totally faux accent somewhere in that car crash of a name? I would not be pandering to that grin

jkklpu Thu 27-Dec-12 21:16:55

Yes, accents matter - as others have pointed out, they tend to change pronunciation. I don't see why it's necessarily pretentious to use a name with an accent in it: there are plenty of pretentious accent-free names grin .

confuddledDOTcom Wed 19-Dec-12 15:27:36

when I read my daughter's name without the accent I read it with the wrong letters. also she's 4 so it's part of teaching her her name. I've never seen her so proud as when she was given a Christmas card last week and knew it was her name, the squeal of "my hat!" as she recognised her name was lovely! she struggles to find her name at nursery because they miss it off. it's part of her name.

and I apologise to the pedants, I am mobile and it doesn't put capitals in and I have a cannula in my right hand.

ElphabaTheGreen Tue 18-Dec-12 19:51:35

Using another Welsh example, I have a friend, Sian, who only ever uses the rightful to bach (or circumflex to use the Franco-Anglo terminology) over the 'a' if she's in a particularly militant Welsh mood. The rest of the time neither she, nor anybody else, bothers with it, on account of it being seen as OTT pedantry, and we don't change the way we pronounce her name.

Would my use of commas in that last sentence class as OTT pedantry?

TheJoyfulChristmasJumper Mon 17-Dec-12 17:22:34

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TheJoyfulChristmasJumper Mon 17-Dec-12 17:19:26

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confuddledDOTcom Mon 17-Dec-12 15:45:34

I have a daughter with an accent, it's a Welsh name and as far as I'm concerned if there's something wrong with the accent there's something wrong with the other letters too. Using Celtic's example, Si is the Welsh Sh (you see it in siop too) so if she spelt her son's name Sion then how is it any different to use the Si? How could she tell people it's not See-on or Sigh-on? How can she say it's not Shone if she doesn't use the ô? You can't rely on pedantry for only half a name!

GrimmaTheNome Mon 17-Dec-12 15:06:39

Zoë looks wrong without the accent. Choe ought to but somehow isn't as bad.

If the owner of the name uses an accent, then you should - its good manners. Same sort of thing as using their preferred mode of address (Miss/Ms/Mrs etc).

CelticPromise Mon 17-Dec-12 14:51:54

Hazel the name is Siôn, pronounced same as Sean or Shaun. Without the accent it would be pronounced 'shone' as in 'the sun shone'. I don't think that's a Welsh word but I might be wrong (not a Welsh speaker).

No offence taken. grin

RarelyUnreasonable Mon 17-Dec-12 14:40:50

I think if there's any connection whatsoever with a country, a name from there is fine. I just hoik judgypants when foreign-sounding names are used to be exotic. Especially if accents are then used incorrectly.
But then I'm grumpy today stares at colicky baby and am probably being vair U.

TheJoyfulChristmasJumper Mon 17-Dec-12 14:26:40

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HelpOneAnother Mon 17-Dec-12 14:25:55

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HelpOneAnother Mon 17-Dec-12 14:22:55

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surroundedbyblondes Mon 17-Dec-12 14:05:51

The sound of the letter is changed by the accent. Or in some languages the letter such as ä is a different letter altogether. If they've chosen to spell their child's name like that, then that's how it is. So writing Zoe instead of Zoë would be like writing Williem instead of William.

However it might be that they have chosen a pretentious name for their child. Though it's not the accent or lack of it that determines that....

HazeltheMcWitch Mon 17-Dec-12 14:02:56

And now I fear I may have mortally offended you as I did not capitalise Welsh.


HazeltheMcWitch Mon 17-Dec-12 14:02:24

I agree with Celtic - if it has an accent, it has an accent. So too does the person themselves have the last say on pronunciation.

Celtic - how do you say the o and the (o with an accent) in welsh please?

I am such a pedant that I need to know how to say it correctly!

HelpOneAnother Mon 17-Dec-12 14:02:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RarelyUnreasonable Mon 17-Dec-12 13:59:28

If the name has an accent, you need to use it.

But I have a hmm face about Uk-born, mother tongue English speakers using foreign names. Find it a tad pretentieux.

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