23 year old son unmotivated to change..

[Josie1968]

Hi there

My son left school at 18, spent some time travelling with his g/f, and did a bit of waiting on in a local pub. He started uni but dropped out. He’s never been very academic but he didn’t know what else to do.. he then got an apprenticeship and has done that for about 2 years now but hates it. He says he wants to leave but doesn’t do anything to change things. I show him jobs if I see things that might be suitable.. sometimes he applies but I usually have to sit with him to help him with what to put. He never knows how to word letters or emails etc. He’s dyslexic but I know other dyslexic people who are able in that way .. although I know it can affect people in different ways. He’s also had anxiety and depression on and off since the age of 15 / 16. My husband and I have always supported him, encouraged him, always there to talk to and offer advice if needed.

I’ve suggested volunteering to gain experience in another field and to enable him to get a part time job and give him some thinking space as currently he’s up at 530am and doesn’t get home until 6pm. So.. long days especially when he hates his job! Today I sat and went through some volunteering options with him, but everything was ‘boring’ according to him. It made me feel really down to be honest. He’s miserable but won’t consider other options. He’s applied for a couple of shop jobs and one in a garden centre. (His apprenticeship is joinery).

He is a drummer and has been in bands since the age of 13 and always says he wants to be a drummer or a job to do with music. But realistically how likely is that? I don’t want to crush his dreams but I’ve said even people in bands who have ‘made it’ have had to work too! I’m started to feel a bit fed up to be honest and can just see him wasting his life by his complete lack of motivation or desire to change things. He’s having CBT sessions at the moment but seems half hearted about that too.

Anyone else in a similar position..?xx

[Weareworried]

Josie I’m in a similar situation in that my son is 23 and unmotivated
He did go to uni but I think it was probably a mistake - he should have graduated last year but due to circumstances they allowed him to defer his final module (which he has had to pay for) with a view to graduating this year - however he has no motivation and catastrophizes the future. He is on medication for mental health and has done a course of CBT which I don’t feel helped him much - it’s so hard isn’t it?

[FedUpAtHomeTroels]

I'd encourage him to finish the apprentiship as he will have a end date to work towards, even if he never works in that field.
On a CV it never looks good to see lots of things unfinished. He already dropped out of Uni no need to add dropping out of an apprentiship too.
This way when he does discover something he wants to go for, he can show he finishes what he starts and isn't flakey.

[Squeejit]

How long is left on his apprenticeship? Is it joinery that he hates, or working for his employer?
I ask because once he’s qualified there may be an opportunity for him to set himself up as self employed, or start a little business making garden furniture or something.
Is he currently in a band? Once the pubs open up again, is there scope to start gigging with them? It’s likely to be weekends but it would be a few extra quid earned doing what he loves. They’d have to put themselves out there though.

[TheLaughingGenome]

Those are very long hours - how much is travel, and how much is apprenticeship?

Is he on low pay? My DSS was a mechanic apprentice at that age and felt thoroughly exploited and drained, and became quite bitter about it all tbh.

[billybagpuss]

To be honest, if he’s 23, there’s only so much you can do, it’s no longer your job to hold his hand and drag him into the workplace.

Is he contributing to the house, if not and Its not as a prior agreement for him to save for house deposit then he should be.

Showing him job opportunities, fine, helping him fill out the application, fine but no longer your job to suggest opportunity after opportunity to be told ‘boring’ and you need to make this clear. If he doesn’t like what he’s doing, he needs to either suck it up or show the initiative to change.

You need to start putting the onus back on him.

I have had similar situation here, and it has taken gentle alternating between being helpful and refusing to interact with the whinging.

[Mrsjayy]

If he is dyslexic his mind might jump all over the place id encourage him to finish his apprenticeship, he isn't a teenager though he can't flop about declaring everything is boring just because adults sometimes have to do boring things try and not indulge him.

[Josie1968]

@Weareworried yes it is a worry, I feel like we’ve gone round and round in circles with him to be honest. The anxiety really holds him back and prevents him from trying new things / experiences. He has a lot more insight now into the anxiety and understands how it ‘works’ and he also is currently trying CBT. We have encouraged him so much over the years and given advice but I’ve told him he is the only one who can make his life different. We can support him and encourage him but we can’t do it for him. He has to make the changes himself. It’s social anxiety so he finds it really difficult to talk to people or interact with people.

[Josie1968]

@FedUpAtHomeTroels I completely agree with what you say. He’s completed two years and has got his college qualification. The way the apprenticeship works is that they keep him on another year on apprenticeship wages and then take him on. The things is, although he’s employed as an apprentice joiner, often he’s cleaning the workspace or labouring. It’s in a caravan production line so he says it’s not ‘proper’ joinery anyway.. although he’s learned joinery at college. We said to him that it doesn’t look good on a cv to keep dropping out, so he persevered and did the two years and got the qualification, but it was a real slog for him and he’s hated it!! He does get good feedback though from his boss and colleagues. I’ve told him now that if he desperately wants to leave he can as long as he makes a huge effort to get another job or do some volunteering.

[Josie1968]

@Squeejit yes he’s in a band and they’ve recorded some singles etc! They’ve done some gigs at pubs and local festivals etc sometimes they get paid, other times they don’t! He enjoys it, which is great. But like I say, he needs to be realistic about earning a living from the band. He needs to accept that he needs a ‘proper’ job too.. and sadly there aren’t many jobs in the music industry..

[Josie1968]

@TheLaughingGenome he’s on £7.77 an hour at the moment. The job isn’t too far away fortunately.. so not too much in travel costs. What did your son do, did he carry on in the motor mechanic industry?

[Josie1968]

@billybagpuss I know I do agree with you. He is contributing to the household bills and also has an ISA that he puts money into each month.. the onus will be put on him to change things. We have to tell him what to do and then keep on at him until he does it.. which can be wearing after a while. If he leaves this apprenticeship I’ll be suggesting that we catch up once a week and he can tell me what he’s done to find something else. I’m happy to help, but he needs to take some responsibility for his life. The low mood and anxiety certainly don’t help on the motivation front but if he gets something he enjoys hopefully that will have a positive impact on how he feels.

[Josie1968]

@Mrsjayy yes I agree. I hate it when he says everything is boring.. how does he know if he won’t even try?! That’s how he ended up with this apprenticeship two years ago.. he thought everything else sounded boring and this was the only one he showed a bit of interest in, ironically!! And turns out he hated it!

[Boiledpotatowitch]

He is unmotivated for probably a lot of reasons but one of them being the job he is doing and applying for is not something he wants to do. Instead of writing off his dreams why don't you encourage them? He may or may not be good enough to be a professional musician but whether he is or not there are plenty of other jobs in music it's not all pie in the sky. I know plenty of musicians and people in the industry who make a good living. Start looking into jobs he might enjoy sound or light engineering, runner for record company, teaching etc etc the industry is huge and I bet there is a place for him somewhere and if he can find something he enjoys he will be on the road to recovery.

[Josie1968]

@Boiledpotatowitch thanks, yes absolutely we have done nothing but encourage him in his music since the age of 13. Driving round all over lugging his drums around until he passed his driving test and could do it himself..! Even then we have shared his singles on our social media, watched as many live gigs as we could suggested all kinds of things associated with the music industry (one of them in a local lighting company that provides lighting for gigs all over the country. But he even was negative about that (as it was unsociable hours and he worried it would clash with his own gigs which are weekends and evenings) he’s done his btec level 3 in sound tech at school but nothing really locally that we can think of. We’re in the north of England and possibly more jobs down South? What other things could he try do you think? Honestly we have tried all sorts with him but his anxiety holds him back so much from getting himself out there.

[Josie1968]

@Boiledpotatowitch he is really talented, he composes his own music in his bedroom on some kit he bought that links to his laptop.. he plays the guitar too so records that. He can’t play his drums at home as the neighbours complained! But he lacks confidence too unfortunately. It’s frustrating. I asked if he’s shared his music with his band but he said he hasn’t.. I’ve encouraged him to, but whether he will I don’t know..

[Boiledpotatowitch]

Keep encouraging him have a google look at jobs in music/record industry I know someone who started off as a runner and is now ceo of a majorly Mahussive label in uk with an amazing life if he is determined he will succeed...

[Boiledpotatowitch]

www.universalmusic.com/careers/

[TheLaughingGenome]

[quote Josie1968]@TheLaughingGenome he’s on £7.77 an hour at the moment. The job isn’t too far away fortunately.. so not too much in travel costs. What did your son do, did he carry on in the motor mechanic industry?[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that's far too many hours, @Josie1968, based on your opening post in that case - he's not supposed to be doing more than 40 hours a week on an apprenticeship (and it on those poverty wages!)

My DSS stayed in the mechanic side of things by applying for the Army and joined up a couple of years ago. He's based in the UK but has been overseas too. He's learned a lot in terms of his specialist trade (still fixing things!) as well as basic skills.

Good luck with it all.

[Josie1968]

Thank you, we will have a look.

[Josie1968]

@Boiledpotatowitch thank you we will have a look.

[Josie1968]

@TheLaughingGenome yes it’s long hours although he has Friday afternoons off so probably evens out..

I’m glad your son is doing something that he (hopefully) enjoys now.

[tofuschnitzel]

It may be that CBT isn't the right fit for him, and that another therapy would be more beneficial. Is the CBT through the NHS? The NHS seem to think CBT is the answer to all mental health issues, which really isn't the case at all. Counselling may be an option, many private counsellors offer a sliding scale for fees.

I would encourage your son to finish the extra year on his apprenticeship. However, if he really doesn't want to stay that long, would working as a joiner for another company be an option?

[Josie1968]

@tofuschnitzel we’ve suggested counselling to him many times over the years but he always refuses unfortunately..

It might be an option, I think if he doing a different type of joinery he might enjoy it more. I don’t think he particularly enjoys the production line environment of caravan manufacturing. He says it’s a bit like putting flat pack furniture together all day!

[TheLaughingGenome]

Would it be right he's working approx 7-12, taking an unpaid lunch hour, then 1-5.30? Except Fridays when he does 7-12? Assembling caravans. For £7.77 an hour?

Just trying to get a feel for his week.

Or is he up at 5.30 for a hobby?

(I have a number of sons/step-sons/daughters in their 20s and early 30s, so I really do get it. I've got one here next to me trying to research seemingly unobtainable NHS bursaries and getting more and more depressed with it all. The mental health crisis amongst these young people is shocking.)

[BackforGood]

That does sound like extraordinarily long hours. Tbf, I'm not surprised he is fed up. I mean, working long hours when you are on a professional salary and it 'goes with the job' or working long hours when you are setting up your own business is different from those hours on a pretty low wage.
However, it is easier to gain employment when you are employed. Walking out of a job when you have nothing to go to doesn't look good on your CV.