The things that a 4 year old needs to know. Help please.

[wb]

Ds1 is nearly 4.5 and I think the time has come to start to talk to him about the less pleasant side of life - good and bad touching, when to tell, stranger danger etc. Probably should have started already but I really hate the idea that we need to do this (but of course we do).

My questions are- where do I start, what should I cover (don't want to freak him out or scare him badly - he thinks the world is a great and exciting place and I want to keep it that way)? Also, do I sit him down for a serious talk, or drip feed the information, or a bit of both?

If anyone has done this and can give any ideas I would be really grateful.

[thisisyesterday]

i don't think a 4.5 year old needs to know that at all really tbh!

we've covered basic stranger danger with ds1 who is 5, but that's as a result of him wanting to walk ahead on the way to school, or go off by himself in the park. so he has been told that he shouldn't talk to people he doesn't know, and never ever go anywhere with anyone unless he has asked me first.

actually, i think we have covered that you only touch yourself when he invited me to touch his penis lol. I told him that really, it was just for him, and that other people didn't need to touch it.

but these things came up naturally, I didn't feel a need to tell him before it became necessary iyswim?

[chicaguapa]

Re stranger danger, we've just told DC that sometimes people are sad that they don't have any children so might want to take home someone else's child. The idea of living with another mummy or daddy is bad enough for them to be careful around strangers. They don't need to know anything else that might happen.

Re private parts, we've just taught them that they belong to DC and no-one else needs to see them. Now DS won't even let me look at him in the bath!

We also have a policy about secrets in that we're not allowed them. They are allowed surprises which means they can hide nice things, like ideas for presents etc but not secrets.

Tbh I think if you sit him down for a talk about it, it might make it seem more intense and frightening. Bring it up when appropriate, like when getting ready for bed or walking in the park.

HTH

[EldonAve]

we have done what to do if you get lost but that's about it

[coldtits]

Everything covered by pants is private. Nobody is allowed to touch him there except himself. This is because your own wee and poo will not give you germs but other people's might, so if someone touches you there, or puts your hand on theirs, he should scream and tell another grown up as soon as possible.

He's not allowed to walk off with ANYONE without asking you or daddy first because he might get lost.

[coldtits]

Ah. In my house nobody is allowed to keep any kind of secrets from their mummy. The police say so. You can keep secrets from other people, but not ever mummy, and mummy doesn't like any sort of surprise that isn'[t in wrapping paper

[notnowbernard]

I think drip-feed

Have age-appropriate conversations as things come up

Eg, if he hears a snippet on the news about a kidnap "That's why it's important that you always stay with Mummy and DAddy/don't run off/don't go with a stranger" Explain what a 'stranger' is

Crossing roads - make it a regular conversation (about what needs to be done to make it safe)

Keeping himself safe - explaining about what parts of our body are private etc (have done this with dd when she's been fiddling in front of people - that it's fine for her to do it, but only in private and only she is allowed to touch the private parts of her body)

HTH

[notnowbernard]

Have said same as Coldtits - private parts defined as what a swimming costume covers

[seeker]

I wouldn't do the stranger thing. Two reasons. One, the risk of anything bad happening to them is incredibly small, and if anything does, the chances of it being a stranger that does it is incredibly, rediculously, small. The other reason - if you tell them not to talk to strangers they miss out on a world of lovely chats with other people on buses, in the shop..

Tell them that it's fine to talk to anyone if mum or dad or a trusted adult is with them - which presumably will always be the case for some time to come.

Tell them that they never have to touch or be touched unless they want - and follow this through (this might cause a bit of a problem when they don't want to kiss Grandma, but hey ho!)

Tell them that it's OK to say "NO".

Tell them that they can always tell you anything at all - and make sure you follow this through by listening to them properly when they tell you stuff so they know that's what you do.

That's all you need at the moment. Honest.

[seeker]

But don't make them fearful and untrusting. Don't tell them that they might be kidnapped. And don't wmphasize strangers. If you do and the worst happens at the hands of someone they know there is the chance that they will think it MUST be all right because Uncle Fred isn't a stranger.

[wb]

Thank you, that's really useful

I would hate to make him fearful and untrusting but I don't want to leave him as vulnerable as I was as a child (nothing ever happened but had any known adult tried anything I would never have dared say no, for example. I was a too very obedient child and I think ds1 takes after me in this).

I have to log off now but will check back tomorrow if anyone else has any thoughts.

[littleducks]

It is hard, I dont really discourage dd from strangers. We have discussed that she must never run away (she went through a stage of hiding in racks of clothes in shops). I have told her that if she gets lost to go and ask from help from a policeman (or someone in uniform, security guard etc) or to go to another mummy with children with her.

We have comparatively 'strict' rules about nakedness at home, pants on at all times so i dont feel the need to discuss that and tbh dd is never in a situation anything could occur, perhaps i will say something before she goes to school.

[Horton]

I have told DD who is three and a half that you should never go anywhere with someone you don't know very very well without asking Mummy/person in charge, even if that person wants to give you something nice or says that Mummy is waiting for you. If she's not sure about what to do and can't see me or is lost, she should ask another mother or a policeman/woman or if no policemen/mothers available then another lady or someone who looks like a grandma. The idea about a uniform is an excellent one so I will be incorporating that, too!

I told her that sometimes people aren't always nice to children but if she checks with whoever's in charge of her then they will be able to tell her if it's a nice person or not.

We also try to make a distinction between secrets that someone else asks you to keep and surprises which are fun.

Also, bottoms and vaginas are private and nobody should ever touch you there unless you agree, and if you don't agree then you should tell the person in charge and make sure they understand that. This has made bottom-wiping a bit of a chore at times, tbh.

If anyone asks you to do something you don't like doing, you should tell Mummy, because then she can help you. This has also led to a bit of trouble as I get an endless stream of complaints about 'XXX wanted me to go on the slide at nursery but I didn't want to' but I reason that too much information is better than none and I try to offer strategies that will help her say no, like advising her to say 'I don't want to now but maybe another day if I feel like it' etc. Oddly, this hadn't occurred to her.

We also talk about how some people might be ill and it might make them be horrid to other people, and so if anyone is horrid to her the best thing is to tell straight away because then we can help the person who's being horrid because they might need some help to feel better and stop being mean. This works equally well for boys who push her in the playground etc and other more threatening situations.

[chicaguapa]

I remember telling DC that if anyone ever offers to let them see some puppies, to come and tell me straight away as I'll be cross if I don't get to see them too. And we can go to see them together.

DC have also watched the Charlie says clips from the 70s. They're on youtube.

[UniS]

My DS 4 is getting the hang of the rule " keep your pants on when changing for ballet" thankfully, else he'd be running about butt naked like he does at home. Hes also getting used to washing his own privates as we hand him the flannel and ask him to do it himself. Fiddling is now confided to in bed AFAIK.

Stopping at corners and where access lanes cross the pavement is coming along nicely so he is allowed to run on ahead a bit. He knows he won't be allowed to walk home alone till he is " XXs age" . Useing the mens toilet at the rec ground is OK so long as he leaves outside door open and talks to me when I ask him what hes doing.

[WherestheDuctTape]

I have been wondering about this one for a while. Thanks for bringing it up WB.

[hellymelly]

Hmm-seeker that is a very helpful post.I too have worried about demonising strangers when they are much more likely to be abused by someone they know and possibly like and trust.I enjoy my dd's chatting to all sorts of people and I would hate that to stop.I am going to note down the advice in your posting,so thanks.

[wb]

Thank you all again - lots of food for thought.

[giggly]

It is interesting to hear other peoples thoughts. At 4.5 we are teaching dd road safety, although she appears to be trying to kill me everyday going to nursery.

With genitals we have gone down the route of only people who mummy and daddy say are okay to see them naked or look/touch, ie gran, doctor. I felt this was important in case of injury/illhealth and bottom wiping.

Both DC 4.5 and 5 months share a bath with one of us and dd wants to touch dh penis which freaks dh out. She says wants to know what it feels like, so far we have diverted he away from this. would be interested to know what other parents have done in this situation.

[giggly]

diverted her away

[cory]

Agree with giggly that it's a good idea not to teach touching safety in a way that means they can never have a medical examination. By the time dd reached school age, she had needed quite a few medical examinations, would have been very unsettling if she had been taught that it is always wrong for an adult to touch her when she doesn't want it.