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Why Love Matters

(30 Posts)
monkeytrousers Tue 14-Jun-05 18:47:44

Anyone read this?

acnebride Tue 14-Jun-05 19:26:02

Yes.

peckarollover Tue 14-Jun-05 19:29:34

No, is it good?

acnebride Tue 14-Jun-05 19:31:28

Sorry! Very mixed feelings about it. I found it quite frightening and as a direct result of reading it changed the childcare setting I was about to put my ds into. But I felt that the author tended to do this:

Theory. Illustration using major celebrity, with which she had not been involved. Tendentious conclusion based on this one 'case'.

Final conclusion suddenly introducing a notional mother 'who finished her coffee before going to her crying baby'. Never in the rest of the book was this minor level of unresponsiveness used as an example - always major levels of neglect or very unusual circumstances used instead.

monkeytrousers Tue 14-Jun-05 20:51:07

I found it really fascinating. I'm not sure what you mean about the conclusion being based on the one case. There were many case studies in the book. Which one are you talking about? Didnt take the comment of the mum 'finishing her coffee..' the same way aswell. It was a broad illustration.

I took her thesis to be based on evidence saying that controlled crying (or more specifically leaving baies to 'cry it out') before a certain age may have serious consequences for your baby's long term emotional development. I found the evidence compelling.

What did you change you childcare setting to and from, if you dont mind me asking?

Feffi Tue 14-Jun-05 22:03:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

monkeytrousers Wed 15-Jun-05 07:28:04

Its been a while since I read it but I'm sure she says that the stress response is 'set' by six months, but that other parts of the brain concerning social and emotional skills are developing and forming pathways up to at least 2. Obviously, they go on doing this but I think her point is that this time is particularly crucial.

Didn't you find that in her descriptions of some pathology’s that you recognised practically everyone you know, with a few uncomfortable moments when you recognised yourself, to varying degrees? I thought it was very strong on its argument about the growing epidemic of depression, especially PND with the culture of parental isolation.

gothicmama Wed 15-Jun-05 07:54:47

sounds interesting where can I get a copy from - TIA

jambo1707 Wed 15-Jun-05 08:08:34

Interested now, where can I get a copy?

monkeytrousers Wed 15-Jun-05 08:36:45

You can get it anywhere, Waterstones, Amazon. It's Why Love Matter's by Sue Gerhardt. We should have a natter about it when you've all finished. I'll pick it up again. Any takers??

Feffi Wed 15-Jun-05 19:57:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

monkeytrousers Wed 15-Jun-05 20:21:59

I know what you mean about re-reading pages although it did get easier - almost compulsive. Aren’t some of the case histories utterly tragic though? I know I'm full of BF hormones but I could hardly bear it. Made me think about adopting!

I think you're right about the length of exposure. Consistency was a key facet. We all know babies thrive on routines and this is just the logical extension of that. That's what I actually found most compelling about the whole book, it's common sense. It may be hard reading for some and they may take it as criticism but
she did make a point of mentioning that babies who cry alot (maybe those with colic) aren't so much at risk if parents react positively and consistently.

The problem with depression is it makes the sufferer the centre of his or her own universe and that narcissism has to be it's most corrosive symptom, certainly in this context. My mother was depressed also but wasn't a good mother. It has repercussions down the generations.

Feffi Wed 15-Jun-05 20:36:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Blu Wed 15-Jun-05 20:54:27

what is it/ is there a link?

monkeytrousers Wed 15-Jun-05 21:25:03

Here's a couple of links

http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1262302,00.html


http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1268161,00.html

Think you may have to paste them into your search engine direct as they're too long to click direct.

monkeytrousers Wed 15-Jun-05 21:28:58

Know what you mean too Feffi. My LO is 8 and a half months old and I've only just gotten to the stage where I leave him with his granny when we go to Tesco's. He doesnt even notice we're gone, of course!

monkeytrousers Wed 15-Jun-05 21:31:21

I meant paste them into internet explorer - sorry

monkeytrousers Fri 17-Jun-05 13:26:14

Just another thought about consistency and responsiveness Feffi. Was talking about this last night with my dp as he's just finished it and re-read this thread after. The debate about controlled crying is tricky, as it tends to mean different things to different people. One or two nights for a few minutes each time I don't imagine is going to do any harm, provided normally parents respond positively and constantly normally. Leaving a baby to 'cry it out' is defiantly a no-no though. Or persisting when it doesn’t seem to be working. It's so difficult to do anyway, isn't it?? Consistent inconstancy (if you know what I mean) too is obviously confusing for anyone trying to make sense of the world around them and how difficult is it to be consistant when you're depressed..?

I don’t know where you are in the book though, so maybe I'll just wait till you've finished!

Rarrie Fri 17-Jun-05 13:51:47

I haven't read it for a long time, but when I did, I seem to remember that what she said was consistent with the research I had already read on infant cortisel at nursery (stress) etc... and it seemed to be a fair representation - unlike other books of that ilk (like Dr Sears) who blatantly twists the research to fit his ends.
Basically, to me it seemed a 'dumbed down' version of what is already known and accepted but what is largely unaccessible to the general public (because it is often so very complex). So the dumbing down, whilst does miss some of the subtelties at times, is on the whole, a fair representation!

As a parent, I'd say its a compulsive read, although unnerving at times!

monkeytrousers Fri 17-Jun-05 13:59:16

I agree. It was accessible in that way without being compromised.

Feffi Fri 17-Jun-05 20:28:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rarrie Sat 18-Jun-05 18:38:57

Sorry, I've no longer got the articles. Threw them out last year, once I had decided child care and was having a big clear out. Sorry!

The main points I seem to remember were to try and keep institutionalised child care ideally to a maximum of 12 hours a week, and stress levels tend to rise particularly in the afternoons, particularly in boys. This is for children under 2.

HTH

monkeytrousers Sun 19-Jun-05 15:45:37

Feffi, I found this. There're a few other links on the page itself. http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1256288,00.html

Feffi Sun 19-Jun-05 21:50:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tiktok Mon 20-Jun-05 15:15:43

I really liked this book. It is a difficult subject to make clear to the layperson, but she manages to do it.

Parents are supported and understood, all the way through, and the baby is treated with respect as a human being who deserves to have his needs met.

Feffi, good, responsive childcare 3 days a week, from a nursery with excellent staff who are stable and expecting to make a consistent relationship with your child, is not harmful, from what I understand. But very few settings are as good as this.

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