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What does everyone think of Fathers 4 Justice?

(265 Posts)
starrynight Mon 13-Jun-05 15:47:58

I only ask because my sister is being terrorised by her ex who was violent toward her throughout her pregnancy (she left when babe was 1 mth old & lived in a refuge for about 2 years - he was about to beat her up only 4 wks after having a Caesarean).

It seems to me she has no rights at all - He disappeared for a year and then turned up demanding to see his son, hasn't paid a penny maintainance, is basically disruptive and manipulative. She has been forced to go to mediation (where she was removed from the room for her own safety) but has to continue with it or 'it will look bad'. He is denying all the abuse and although police were called he was never charged.

Her solicitor and the mediator are telling her that basically, he will get access to her son & within 3-6months will be entitled to have him for weekends. I think this is appalling - where are the rights of the child?

Anyway, I can't help thinking that Fathers 4 Justice are sheltering and supporting fathers like him - he is a fantastically manipulative man and could convince anyone that she is a hysterical liar. Who is there to protect the women and children???

homemama Mon 13-Jun-05 16:08:35

Hi starrynight,
Sorry, cant offer you any legal advice but ive discussed F4J with DH before and he told me that he has a guy at work who is involved with this org. and that he's quite an aggressive guy who finds it difficult to defer to their female boss. DH says he was like like before his wife left him.
Wishing your sis and nephew the best.

Mosschops30 Mon 13-Jun-05 16:10:59

Message withdrawn

LunarSea Mon 13-Jun-05 17:22:16

According to this in the news today, and this last week, it sounds like F4J is now trying to tone down it's image and disasociate itself some some of the more radical elements.

marne Mon 13-Jun-05 17:34:14

Sory but i think what they are doing is a good thing, fathers should have more rights and more say in there childrens life, my dh has tree children by his ex wife and he has no rights or say in what they get up to or how they are brought up, his ex is a terrable mother to them but we cant do nothing. So good on them and i hope they achieve what they set out to do.

nutcracker Mon 13-Jun-05 17:34:47

I agree with Marne

Mosschops30 Mon 13-Jun-05 17:37:31

Message withdrawn

marne Mon 13-Jun-05 17:43:51

Thanx nutcracker,
I dont think all fathers should have righs as some arnt to be trusted with there kids. Look at it from the fathers point of view, my dh suffers from depression as a resault of being apart from his kids and not having any say in the things they do, where they go etc...
I think fathers shoul have the same rights as mothers do.

starrynight Mon 13-Jun-05 17:49:21

I think the problem is that each side seems to be arguing for a 'blanket' solution - that doesn't work. F4J seem to want blanket rights for all fathers - totally ignoring the statistics on domestic violence against women and (in a large percentage of cases) children.

How long before a woman or child gets killed by their partner & the government/pressure groups take notice? Oops forgot, it happens twice a week and no one gives a sh*t.

Mosschops30 Mon 13-Jun-05 17:51:04

Message withdrawn

starrynight Mon 13-Jun-05 17:54:10

That 2nd link from LunarSea gave a good idea of the mindset of some of the men involved - comparing themselves to the Real IRA??? Good grief.

Thanks for the emoticon MossChops

Nightynight Mon 13-Jun-05 17:56:41

I think they're a sign of the times.

I know couples where the husband is a stinker and she's a saint, and other couples where the wife is a total cow and the husband suffers.

So its important that we shouldn't forget that there are fathers with genuine grievances that have to be addressed.

Mosschops30 Mon 13-Jun-05 17:59:02

Message withdrawn

Nightynight Mon 13-Jun-05 18:09:16

maybe they've got so desparate they've got past the suffering in silence stage?

triceratops Mon 13-Jun-05 18:09:25

It is a very tricky subject and I think Fathers for Justice do a good job in highlighting a problem with the way things have been done for the past few years.

Dads should have contact with their children unless the children are in danger from this contact in my opinion.

triceratops Mon 13-Jun-05 18:12:12

And I know that the batman character is not someone I would want to have kids with, but it is still a valid point that he is making.

FairyMum Mon 13-Jun-05 18:13:42

I wish we could see men being equally vocal about other things when it comes to their children, such as extended paternity leave, shorter working-hours etc etc......I think their campaigns are quite negative towards women tbh.

Jampots Mon 13-Jun-05 18:15:02

i bumped into an old schoolfriend a few weeks ago and he is quite active in F4J - clearly he adores his twin boys and it would appear he is allowed to see them once a month for a day and yet they only live about 10 miles away. He is very passionate about his cause and fair play to him I say, there are plenty of men who dont want to know their children

aloha Mon 13-Jun-05 18:15:17

I think I'd go to prison rather than let my son spend weekends with a violent man. That's no criticism of your sister Starrynight - far from it. My dh's ex refused mediation and it didn't do her any harm in court (sadly!) so she could pull out - especially if he is attacking her! FFS, what is her solicitor doing? If this man is attacking his ex when there is a bloody mediator in the room, why is he talking about it being inevitable that he will have all this contact? Can you sister move far away to make contact impossible? Or just refuse to cooperate on the grounds that he is violent. That should be enough to stop this man being able to control her.

Caligula Mon 13-Jun-05 18:21:04

They're a bunch of control freak mysogynist wife batterers.

The main members of F4J, including Batman, have convictions for assault, battery, stalking, etc. etc. One of them served a prison sentence for beating up the mother of his children and her cousin. (Really cares about his kids, doesn't he? Beating up their mother - what a great thing to do for them, eh?)

90% of couples sort out their custody arrangements without recourse to the courts. The tiny minority of fathers who are denied access are denied access for very good reasons - usually, because they have threatened to murder their children and/ or the mother of their children. And yes, it's 2 a week women murdered by their partners or ex-partners. Most of them don't make the news, because it's just too ordinary.

The family courts are still awarding sole contact to men who have a history of domestic abuse. That is a direct result of F4J's very clever political campaigning. And so a few more children this year will be killed by Christmas, by their loving fathers, and most of us won't even hear about it.

Caligula Mon 13-Jun-05 18:29:00

here's a link - the bottom paragraph sort of says it all really.

f4j link

Oh and there are so many more of them. But I don't have time to trawl the net right now!

Nightynight Mon 13-Jun-05 18:34:31

"But I am aware of people who have served time for acts of violence who now look after their children who are great fathers."

Caligula, is this the paragraph that you find unbelievable?

if so, why?

aloha Mon 13-Jun-05 18:44:50

hmmm....so he broke down the door of the bathroom and beat her up again because he was concerned about her...how very, very thoughtful, eg?

homemama Mon 13-Jun-05 18:50:16

caligula, I totally agree! What sort of example is that to set your child!
If DH and I split, we would try our best to sort it out between us. If he was violent (altho this would NEVER happen) I would do everything and anything to stop him seeing my children. Otherwise, I would do everything possible to make sure he remained in their lives.
If I was being nasty, surely he would file for joint custody to ensure access and say in their lives. Is that not what most parents do in a split anyway?

happymerryberries Mon 13-Jun-05 18:56:55

Caligula, and I must remember to say that I have given a lot of blood when I next beat someone up

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