Other peoples children??

[AnotherHelen]

I have made a very good friend at christmas and she is so lovely - we have everything in common her kids get on well with mine and my dp gets on great with her dp! we have even all just been on holiday together and it was fantastic! but her little girl is a total nightmare - im so sorry if that sounds awful but i dont know how else to describe her! she is nearly 2 which i know is not a good age anyway but she is always with her mum, we go round on a saturday evenings sometimes until gone midnight and amelia is still up and wondering around the house because she sleeps with her mum and so wont go to bed until her mum does even at 1 am!! we cant even have a glass of or a meal there because amelia is climbing on your knee and trying to get your drink or trying to steal your food she jumped on me the other day and poured her entire cup of juice all over me! - at 1 am in the morning u dont expect to have a 2 year old running around demanding sweeties and jumping all over you! i really dont know what to do anymore - i cant say anything to my friend without it sounding like im telling her how to raise her kids and i cant say nothing as its putting me off going there now i would hate for our friendship to be spoilt over this, i even tried to carefully drop a hint saying i found a great website for getting your toddler into a good bedtime routine - she just laughed and said amelia wont sleep in her own bed as she just comes running through to my bed all night and i cant put the bars back on her cot as she wont let me!! - seriously is it me or what? i know this is a mega rant, but i really enjoy our friendship other than this and im soo stuck as to how i can resolve this problem? how do you deal with other peoples kids?

[suzywong]

bide you time
in a few weeks your friend will have reached her limit and be doing controlled crying on her child, no one can stand that kind of private time intrusion indefinitely

[jampots]

why not invite them (her and dp) round to yours or out for an evening and suggest they get a babysitter - at least you'll be guaranteed adult time

[AnotherHelen]

I did that jampots and they came for about an hour and her mobile phone rang - her mum saying amelia wont stop screaming and wrecking the place she wants you! and they got there coats apologized and left there and then! her dp Matt was round here on his own a couple of nights ago, he and my fella where just about to go to the local for a game of pool and his phone rang and it was my friend saying can u come home again please as amelia wants u too read her a story not me and she wont stop screaming until you do! so he left again! i think they are both mad! i love them both dearly but they are totally bonkers!

[AnotherHelen]

I hope so suzywong! i will be soo sad if anything happened to our friendship! but i soo badly want to say " will you put that child to bed!!" i feel sorry for amelia too she has permanent shadows under her eyes!

[hunkermunker]

Madness! They're letting an almost two-year-old control them.

I hate to think what she'll be like when she's a bit older.

It's not fair on the child, this kind of OTT pandering.

[Satine]

Blimey, do they know what an enormous rod they are creating for their own backs? They'll have to get that Supernanny in...seriously, though, I don't think giving in to a small child all the time does him/her any favours. A routine and appropriate boundaries are good things, imho. Bet not many of their other friends perservere with them as you are doing!

[hunkermunker]

And she can't be getting enough sleep.

[AnotherHelen]

Exactly hunkermunker!!!! this is exactly how i feel!! but as my lovley mum has said i need to tread carefully as anything i say to her may offend her! i really believe this may end in tears though as even my dp agrees its too much to go round there anymore!

[hunkermunker]

AH, I had friends who had a similar style of parenting (I say had, they are now divorced). It was a nightmare going round there as their little girl was up the whole time - and she hated us eating, so one or other parent was always playing with her.

Maybe they've nothing in common without their child up? That was certainly the case with the couple I knew.

[AnotherHelen]

My friend said the other night she went to run herself a bath and just got in when amelia came running in saying she wanted to get in, so she had to empty some water out to top up with cold and then undress her and then get her in the bath, after about 10 secs amelia decided no she didnt want a bath and mummy had to get out oo so she did!!! she got dressed and emptied the bath!!! - i could just cry! i feel bad for my friend as like satine said she is creating a rod for her own back!!! - a big one!! - i dont think i have a chance in hell of sorting this out do i?

[mears]

I think you need to be open and honest with her that you do not like adult company being interrupted by a child. You recognise that we all bring our children up in different ways but you need adult time away from kids. She wil also benefit. You could offer her support and advice to encourage her 2 year old to go to bed. Until such times, politely decline to meet at night unless it is an evening barbecue or soemthing like that where you don't mind kids.
Would amelia go to bed with your kids if it was a sleepover type arrangement or would they all be up?

She needs to get this 2 year old sorted out now or her life will be dominated by this child. Behaviours will get worse and it will getto the stage you will not want to see her during the day at all don't need to tell her that bit though.

[hunkermunker]

Is she happy? Does she tell you these stories as if she's finding them amusing? Do she and her partner seem happy together?

It might be she thinks she's attachment parenting, but actually she's being bullied by her child, IMO.

The bath thing is scary... An alone bath is a perk of being a mother - not to be shared with children!

[Satine]

AH, did your friend tell you the bath story in an "I can't cope" way or "oh isn't my daughter an adorable little pickle" way? That might give you a clue as to whether she's happy with the state of affairs.

[Satine]

Ooh, hm types much faster than me!!

[AnotherHelen]

Its a good idea about the bbq thing! i think if they slept over she would just keep everyone up! as she really does SCREAM! she doesnt cry she just screams her head off when she doesnt get her own way! her eldest child who is 5 goes to bed at 8pm everynight but sits watching DVD's and sometimes comes down at 11 saying his films finished can someone come up and put another one on! - its utter madness! i dont think id have ever believed people could be this way with their kids if i hadnt seen it! hunkermunker - i think your right about the only haveing kids in common thing! Plus when we have our new baby in september we are REALLY not going to want this child running amock like this as i know they will be here all the time!

[AnotherHelen]

Satine - she said it in a very 'awww isnt she a monkey' kinda way!!! i simply said nicely that yes she was and if mine did that i would jump on them! she just giggled! i really think i need to be honest with her like mears said! i cant see anyway of ignoring it anymore!

[saadia]

I would say that you have to be very careful in this situation because if your friend doesn't realise she has a problem she could get very offended by your friendly advice.

To all of us it does seem as though the child is totally controlling the parents, but if they don't mind this and can deal with it then I don't think anyone else really has the right to object, except of course you could in those situations where she pours drink over you or climbs on you, then you can tell her to stop.

I'm saying this because mine and dh's parenting style is very different from that of our friends and relatives. There are lots of things they do which I think are completely wrong, and no doubt they think the same about us, but every family has its own dynamics and until the parents themselves want things to change I think it's best to keep quiet.

[motherinferior]

What about saying casually something like 'oh, we went out the other night, it was great' or 'it's fabulous, I actually don't feel tired today' (you'd probably have to lie for that last one, obviously ) or otherwise showing off about how life is better if you've stopped letting your child bully you?

God, I thought we caved into DD2. I suddenly feel all firm and matronly

[Satine]

hmm, that makes it less likely that she'll take your comments constructively but it's fairer to tell her why you don't enjoy spending time with her family, otherwise she'll wonder why you've stopped seeing her...not an easy subject to broach, though. We're all a little sensitive about our parenting skills (well at least I am!) Hopefully even if she doesn't appreciate your honesty now, she certainly will one day.

[AnotherHelen]

You are right too saadia! i fully respect peoples own parenting! i would never normally even consider saying anything to anyone about there kids - my mum who is great but has more than butted into my parenting a few times and we have often had very heated discussions about how strict she thinks i am and how soft i think she is lol!! so i know how annoying and hard it is when someone has 'opinions' on your children! its just that or our friendship pays! and by the sounds of things they have had a few failed friendships with people and 'they dont know why?' its a shame they are lovley people!

[hunkermunker]

AH, on that theme, can you say something like:

Please realise how hard this is to say, and feel free to tell me to back off, as I'm sure it's more my problem than yours - I won't be offended and I hope you won't be as I have the very best intentions and really don't want to interfere...

then say:

I feel uncomfortable having Amelia up all evening when we're around and I would love to spend some child-free time with you and DP.

I think that's all you need to do - make it your problem, make it non-confrontational and don't go into huge detail or use loads of examples, unless she asks for them!!

[saadia]

It is difficult. I suppose if the friendship is suffering anyway you have nothing to lose by saying something, but from your descriptions of her it doesn't sound as though she is even remotely ready for change.

On the other hand, if you are honest with her then at least you are giving her respect and who knows it may even strengthen your friendship.

[Chandra]

Appologies if I repeat what has been already said but... I have a friend with a kid like that and...I noticed that a person who runs to take care of her child's every wimp won't take these kind of suggestions well. Some people suggested that to my friend and she couldn't have been more offended, she can't simply understand that her little sweetie's presence is not pleasant during adult's time. She has definitively created a rod for her own back but on her eyes, is the rest of us who are in the wrong, we are "bad mothers" who are cruel to their children by sending them to sleep.

I guess that if you really want some adult's time with these persons you will need to go out to have dinner at a restaurant or something in the like, as she may be annoyed even by the suggestion of getting a child minder which would sound to her as if her little darling is not welcomed in your house.

[AnotherHelen]

sorry to have vanished! - sister turned up with her new little bundle and stayed for a while!! i agree with all of you on mentioning something to her and then i agree with all of you who say i shouldnt - but there lies my dilemma! it seems so crazy that friendship should be so threatened (and not just once but a few times by the sounds of things!) by a 2 year old!! if i were to trust my instinct i would say deep down she is fed up with amelia constantly being around at all hours, but like hunkermunker says i think she is worried her and her dp have nothing in common anymore without kids present and i think he is worried too as he keeps suggesting they start trying for another asap! - another to distract them from each other maybe? i dont know maybe i am reading to much into it or butting in to their lives too much!!!