had enough of 5yo dd hurting and shouting abuse at other children.

[shavenhaven]

she has always been the biggest handfull you can imagine, i often wonder how i get through the days sometimes but usually she can have a sweet side as well.

recently though her behaviour has got so much worse, she is so emotional and i feel like she spends all her time in tears, she can turn it of as quick as she starts though.

she makes other childrens lives hell shouting at them calling them stupid and idiots, she tries to strangle other children and give them nipple twisters.

i have no idea how she would even know hw to do these things and we never call her stupid or call her a idiot.

it does not matter what you do to try and punish her you can see her eyes glaze over and nothing enters her head, i keep her in till she has calmed down then as soon as she goes back out to play she is at it again.

the latest thing is lying, i lose count of the ammpunt of lies i hear her say in a day, even stupid things like coming in and saying her sister is doing something, i tell her its fine then she will go out and tell dd1 that she is in trouble. she has also told the girl next door that i called her a "bumhole"

i really have had it, i cant cope with her anymore.

i have always thought that she had a lot of symptoms assosiated with adhd but am worried that the doctor will think i am a bad mum and cant cope if i take her to see him.

as soon as her eyes open in the morning its like "ping" and thats her in full hyper destructive, abusive mode till she goes back to bed at night. inbetween this i have her destroying the house and running in and out the house all day.

its like she never grew out of the toddler stage and i have been coping with the terrible twos for years.

[sickofsocalledexperts]

I would say she sounds like she may have ADHD - why not go to the doc's - it really is a recognised condition nowadays and they won't accuse you of bad parenting. I've recently put my hyperactive autisitc boy on a medication called Strattera which can really help. I also think you have to find a "punishment" which works for her violence - I would never hit a child, but for my (at the time non-verbal, autistic toddler) I would wash his hair the minute he did anything aggressive, as he hated hairwash and I needed a non-verbal sign that aggression would not be tolerated. He's now no longer aggressive, which is a relief as he is getting pretty big for me to control now! You need to tackle this now when she's 5 - as she sounds like she is making your own and others' lives pretty miserable. I have a friend whose child is like this, though must admit she is getting better as she gets older. Good luck!

[shavenhaven]

thanks for the reply sickof, i really cant take much more. i have never met another child like her and am worried that she will start to be left out or that her and her sister wont get invited to houses/parties because of her behavior.

as terrible as this will sound (and i cant believe i am even going to write it) the only reason i have managed to hold back from smacking her is because if i started i dont know if i could stop

[Littlefish]

Shaven - What has school said about her behaviour? Is it the same there? Her behaviour does sound extreme in my opinion. I think the GP could be a good place to start.

[TotalChaos]

agree with sickof about taking her to the doctors (who would be likely to do an onward referral to a psychologist or paediatrician). How is she at school? If she's the same at school then that I think can make the doctor take you that bit more seriously.

[FluffyBunnyGoneBad]

I second ADHD. Steve Biddulph has writtne alot of books about childrens behaviour which may be useful, there's one called the secrets of happy children (or something similar). Do you have a 'time out spot'? How do you handle it when she's like this? What do you do?

[shavenhaven]

school says that she never stops shouting (she cant seem to talk) she never stops running (she also cant walk) and that she can be over emotional and likes to boss everyone around.

they have said that they dont see it as a problem just that she reequires more work/attention than others.

she starts big girl school after the holidays and people seem to think this will calm her down but i really dont know how she will cope with having to sit still, she cant sit for more than 2 seconds in the house.

i have tried everything with her to try and punish her when she has misbehaved, you mention it and i will have tried it.

the problem is though she seems to have the meory of a goldfish so all punishments have to be done there and then, taking things away does not work as she forgets i have taken them and rewarding good behavior can be difficult as she wont remember that we were going to the zoo etc at the weekend.

[Littlefish]

Does she go into Reception, or Y1 in September? (Or are you in Scotland?).

[shavenhaven]

in scotland so she has come out nursery and will be starting p1

[FluffyBunnyGoneBad]

I'll have more time later so I'll get back to you then if this is OK. Try not to worry though, asking for help is a huge step so it can only get better from here. It sounds like the school haven't helped. There is a problem which they should have picked up on, it's obvious that she needs support but they have not been helping her the way they should.
She has a short memory so giving her incentives that are for a couple/few days later is too long of a wait. She needs something that she can see, a reward chart is a good idea as it's visual, maybe a tree, each time she is helpful/well behaved then she goes up a branch, goes down a branch with time out if behaviour is poor, I think the reward needs to be at the end of the day due to her memory, it doesn't have to be a treat, maybe some time with you for a story/ a mini facial/helping you cook supper/making cakes with you etc. Have a clear list of behaviours that are not tolerated (swearing, hitting), talk to her about these when you make the chart so she knows. She needs a warning before you move her leaf down the tree "We don't say that word because it's rude", if she carries on then follow through, it's important that she understands why she is in trouble.
You also need some support from your health visitor so I suggest you contact her for some advice.
Diet also plays a big part in hyperactivity, juice/e numbers etc so it's something to look at. Excercise can help to burn off excess energy so this is also something to think about. An environment that is loud or bustly can bring out the energetic side in some children aswell so think about what your home is like, do you shout to get her attention?

[alardi]

Your post cheered me up, shaven. 5yo DS is spookily similar, not as bad, but he has his moments... .
Do you get strangers telling her or you off about her behaviour; that's the worst .
With DS punishments/ultimatums are counter-productive. We are more successful using humour & rewards to get him to calm down / mind. What activity or situation, if anything, will your DD sit still for?

[sickofsocalledexperts]

that is a good point - a trampoline has been a lifesaver for getting my hyperactive DS's energy out

[BrigitBigKnickers]

My Nephew has ADHD and was a real handful when he was little. Punishments meant nothing, he was impulsive and rude constantly in trouble at school. He's older now and not perfect but much better- he has learned to control himself to a degree.

My SIL used 123 magic look here with him and it was a lifesaver (for him and her). There is a book and a DVD. I used it with my DDs when they were little and think it's great (not just for ADHD but a general discipline technique also.)

Might be worth a go but I really would get her assessed as ADHD sounds really likely and has nothing to do with bad parenting.

[shavenhaven]

she does have a reward chart and it works to a degree but even getting her to behave for half a day to get rewarded can be a challenge, i remember when she was about 2yo at playgroup and the children all got a sticker for sitting through a story. in the end the staff started giving dd a sticker if she sat through 2 pages or else she would never had got one.

we always read a story together at bedtime (this is something i would not give up no matter how bad the day has been as its the only time she will lie beside me) but while i am reading her a story she will be singing songs to herself

our trampoline is a lifesaver, she was bouncing/flipping/doing roly polys on it earlier for about half an hour.

i dont find that other people comment to much yet when we are out i think this is because 1/ she is tiny and looks more like a 3yo so people are more forgiving 2/ i try to avoid shopping etc with her 3/ if we are out somewhere she gets constant one to one to stop her playing up to much.

friends know what she is like and are sympathetic, everyone loves her because she is such a little character but this aggresion and hitting is soon going to change all that.

[alardi]

I think I would focus on preventing the aggression, if she were mine.
Does she not sit still quietly for ANYTHING? DS loves Hama beads, for instance.

[shavenhaven]

not really she likes to play her ds in the car but wont sit and play it at home.

she does like hannah montana but she will sing and dance right through the show not actually sit and watch it.

[FluffyBunnyGoneBad]

I'd say that half a day per sticker is too long for her, it needs to be something she can manage, if it's too hard for her then she'll see it as unachievable and give up. It looks like the signs have been there for along time, I'm shocked that no one has advised you to seek specialist advice. 1:1 time with her is great, could you use time on the trampoline as an incentive?

I really do suggest you have a chat with the GP about her, I would talk to the GP alone first, then take her in. ADHD isn't anything to do with how you are parenting her, it isn't anything you have done. The world for her is such an exciting place, she just doesn't have the ability to control herself.

[shavenhaven]

fluffy your last line has made me lol. you have just summed her up in that one sentence. she is like a little puppy who cant get enough of anything.

is it worthwhile calling the doctors and asking if anyone has specific experience of this or will i just made an appointment with my normal gp?

[FluffyBunnyGoneBad]

Make an appointment with your normal GP, she needs a referal to a paediatrician as these are the only ones who can diagnose ADHD (if I remeber correctly). There is probably a support group where you live, they can be a valuable resource. Look on the web for information, it's useful to know you are not alone, they may be able to suggest some coping strategies that you can use before you get a referal.