slowly losing the will to go on

[rubadubadoo]

Don't know where to begin really - everything seems wrong and unbearable. Had pnd after ds1 so badly and decided not to have anymore (i'd had ivf) then dd1 arrived naturally in March. I do love ds1 very much, I can't bear to think he is sad or unhealthy and I genuinely want the best for him. Have struggled to really bond with him and have always found myself having to force myself to 'enjoy' being with him which breaks my heart when I see him sleeping. He is 2.5 now with full-on terrible 2s - he whinges, whines, screams from the moment he wakes up. Everything is a battle..it's no to everything. As soon as he wakes I go tense. If he doesn't get what he wants straight away there's hell to play. Get embarrased taking him out. Find myself leaving him in front of the TV whilst I'm with the baby in the kitchen (crying) because I find him so irritating sometimes. Have tried all the ignoring tactics, etc. Today I feel so guilty as I feel I've spent all day shouting at him or putting him in time-out.. in short he's miserable and so am I and after 2.5 years I can't see how things will get better.

[BettyTurnip]

Do you have anyone you can talk to? Much support around? Toddlers are difficult at the best of times but it's even harder when you have a baby on top.

Has your Health Visitor been good? Just wondering if you think you may have PND this time round too?

[rubadubadoo]

Yes - my sister lives fairly close and I try to see her once a week. My mum and dad come over for a couple of hours a week. DH helps by washing the dishes in the evening - nothing else though so housework/ laundry piling up. Am on ads but at times like this I lose faith in their effectiveness. Am feeling lonely, isolated, unhappy and can't stop thinking (except when I'm asleep - and then I could cry when I wake up in the morning and wonder how I'm going to do another day..24/7 52wks per year. Have thought about leaving the pram with the kids in the doctors surgery and just walking away..just want some peace.

[bruces]

are you able to speak to your Dr/health visitor?
if possible try and get out to play groups it's hard but they can help,are you able to afford a nursery for a few hours a week?
good luck thinking of you

[tigerbear]

Rubadubadoo - I think your DH needs to be helping you more, to be honest. You can't be expected to do everything yourself.

[Fruitysunshine]

I think you need to go back to your GP to discuss your depression, perhaps your meds need tweaking. It would be good also to talk to your Health visitor at the next baby clinic and tell her how you feel you are not coping with your toddler's tantrums as well as a young baby. She may be able to give you some pointers and more support.

How is it when you take them both out? Do you take him out daily for some fresh air and exercise? When my toddler gets antsy I take her out, get her running around and she is happy for the rest of the day. I still get "no" every 30 seconds but I have learned to rise above it. Also, having a routine (I am sure you do) and sticking to it will also be good for him.

Don't suffer in silence - honestly, PND is an awful, awful illness. If your friends or family can't help you in the way you need then you need to find teh strength and go search out the correct help.

Hope that helps.

[BettyTurnip]

Have you actually talked to your dh and family about how low you're feeling?

I know it's easier said than done but force yourself to get out of the house and let your ds loose in the park/softplay or similar. Would your parents or sister tbe happy to keep an eye on the dc so you can have a few hours to yourself to do what you want? And your dh needs to get on board with doing more practical things in the house to lighten your load.

I really feel for you but it will get easier as your ds gets older and his behaviour becomes more manageable. It really sounds like you have gone through the mill when you say you've always struggled to bond with him. Do you feel able to approach your HV to discuss this further or be put in touch with people or organisations which may be able to help?

What about speaking to your GP about reviewing your meds as they don't seem to be having the desired effect?

[BettyTurnip]

x-posted with other people - we are all saying the same things!

[marmoset]

hello rubadub - I know i'm abit late to this thread so hope you get this message. Just wanted to say hi and that the other advice is very sound.
I'm not sure if this story will help but I once read an interview with a midwife who had been desperate for a baby and then had pnd when he was born. She said that she found the early stages very hardgoing and actually quite boring but she really enjoyed and bonded with him when the toddler years were over. Her point was that not everyone loves the early years and that different people enjoy their children most at different stages - I think that was really refreshing and honest and something i've kept in mind over the last 12 years of childrearing!
Obviously, you want to make sure that your pnd is checked out and that you are supported as much as possible so that you can enjoy them more- and enjoy yourself.

[rubadubadoo]

Sorry for not coming back sooner - had a really busy weekend with ds and dd as my dh was away overnight for a party so have been struggling a bit. Thanks to everyone for your kind words.. it really helps..I know I'm not the only one in this position it just feels like it sometimes. Am going to see my GP this week to try to see if he can change my prescription as I have felt myself 'slipping' down for a few weeks now. My ds is no angel at the moment but to be fair to him his behaviour is probably normal and it hasn't worsened, rather my capacity to deal with it has reduced...if that makes any sense. I need to get to grips with overwhelming feelings of guilt .. guilt that I can't pay him the attention I used to before dd arrived and guilt that after having seen all those women desperate for a baby in the IVF clinic I feel the way I do. How ungrateful am I? I am really very, very lucky but I just don't feel it.

[screamingabdab]

I would agree with what marmoset said. I found DS1 very very hard at this age (very tantrummy - me and him ), and I was on edge a lot of the time.

Things between us started to really improve when he turned 4. He is now nearly 9 and those dark days of crying in the kitchen are a dim memory.

Here's what helped me :

1. DS1 went to playgroup 2 mornings a week from about 2 and a quarter. Your HV may be able to fast-track you because of the PND
   
   
2. I saw a counsellor, who helped me vent my feelings
   
   
3. I was lucky enough to find a childminder who had DS2 one afternoon a week, from when he was about 9 months old, while DS1 was at another playgroup (then age 3 and a bit). She nearly saved my life.
   
   I really identify with what you say about not believing it will get better, but it will. You need more help though !!
   
   Another option : Homestart (they provide volunteers to come and help you out in any way you need). Maybe someone with experience will come on this thread.

[screamingabdab]

Bump

[screamingabdab]

Hope you are OK rubadubadoo

[marmoset]

Me too

[estobi1]

great advice about getting your ds1 into a pre-school it will do him good and give you time away from him. Is there any possibility of you working - a suggestion only but I found my dd1 pretty unbearable at age two felt depressed and everything was so difficult. I got a job and suddenly was away from her and a person again. I appreciate it will be difficult if you have a baby too but if family could help and ds1 is at pre-school it might really help you. I also joined our pre-school committee and that helped me to meet other like minded mums and created an interest for me outside the home.

One thing that worry me was how would I cope when dd2 turned two - i worried about it throughout my pregnancy and early babydom but I have to say this time round (touch wood)I am really enjoying it - I find my dd2 funny and naughty rather than just agrravating and naughty as I did with dd1.

I really wish you the best of luck with everything and hope that you find some peace soon xx

[smellen]

Sorry to hear you are having such a tough time.
Just wanted to say that, as you have said, "to be fair to him his behaviour is probably normal", you might find it useful to read some of the intro to Tanya Byron's 'Your Child, Your Way' book. It has some useful comments about how we, as parents, often perceive behaviour of children and how it is possible to "re-frame" our view of it in a more positive light.

If that sounds like too much to do at the moment, it might help you to take a few moments at the end of each day to reflect on when your DS misbehaved, what triggered it, what he did, how you reacted etc., and see if there are certain times of day, or situations, that trigger the TTs or whatever he does. It might be that when he is hungry, or overtired, that he plays up. Also, if you say you are in the kitchen with the baby, avoiding being with him, might it be that he is playing up in order to get your attention? If you think this might be the case, and it is a vicious circle, perhaps you could ask your sister to watch your baby for an hour whilst you do something with your DS that you can enjoy together. Even a trip on the bus can be fun for a 2 year old, so it needn't be anything fancy.

I do hope you get through this. Being a mum looks like such an easy option until you have kids and realise the enormous amount of effort, time and patience required. Everyone struggles from time to time, if they don't they're kidding themselves. It will get easier, but do ask for help from your DH, sister, GP, friends if you need it - even just venting to someone can clear your head and make you feel better, at least for a while. And don't feel guilty about all of this, you are doing your best for your kids

[cakefaced]

rubadubadoo, hope all is OK. Just picked up this thread. I was struck by how similar our situations are. I too had IVF in 2005, and reading some of the posts on fertility friends it seems its not unusual to get pnd. Its as if we put all our hopes in things being great when we have a baby, but its not, its the same but you are sleep deprived and constantly subject to someone else's whims. Lots of 2.5 year olds are unbearable, so you are not alone there. Don't worry about going out, anyone who has had kids has been there!

Dd1 is 3.5 and dd2 12 weeks. I found a huge change in how I felt about dd1 after dd2 arrived in April. Dd1 was IVF/ICSI and dd2 a natural conception (and a huge surprise). I found dd1 very irritating and silly for a while when dd2 came home. I got quite shouty and irritable for a few weeks. My downfall is my short temper, and general lack of tolerance. Its been a huge change for dc1 when a new one arrives. I had to make a huge effort to be chirpy and try to change my behaviour to get the best out of dd1. I don't always manage it and its still early days. I can manage better if I have planned each day the night before and we go out alot, anywhere so long as its out eg library, park, local church group, play groups, childrens centers, shops. But lack of sleep always makes me less able to cope and more likely to shout. I have the advantage that dd1 is in nursery 3 days a week, and I'm not sure how I would cope otherwise.

• Can you explore nursery placement (don't feel guilty dc will love it, learn social skills and make new friends). It will give you some good time with dc2 which they need too.
• don't be too hard on yourself, we are our own hardest critics
• go out and ignore other people, almost certainly they are feeling sympathy for you if you have a screaming 2 year old, not judging you
• children are irritating sometimes, its OK to be annoyed
• its been a big change for both of you and your capacity to tolerate ds behaviour will have been diminished by lack of sleep but as dc2 sleeps better hopefully things will get better with ds (it did with me)
• not everyone enjoys children, or is a natural earth mother. Find someone else to moan with, who won't judge you and understands where you are coming from.
• you know you are feeling better when your sense of humour returns (it took me 4 days to realise dh had made a joke in the early days after dd2 arrived, but I think I get most jokes and laugh now!)
• IVF makes you feel you should be a super parent to compensate for something, you don't have to be, you just have to be "good enough".
• the best way to beat the "Nos!" are to avoid asking questions that can be answered with a "no". So instead of "Do you want breakfast?" ask "Do you want either ....toast or ...cereal?" that way you get a positive answer that hopefully won't leave you banging your head.

Let us know how you are getting on.